The collective Trg to date

[QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>]

Discussions of Torsens continue:

Eliot:
By the design of the torsen, a 450hp race car, with the torsen that exists in
all audis street versions, can transmitt 225hp to either axle in the same
turn.  That is the equivalent of putting the power from a stage II MC motor to
the front axle or the rear, at any given moment.  No bite imminent?  As cf
decreases, what happens?

You are quoting torsens in racing from the very articles that don't say they
saw it.  What are they?  YOU don't know if and/or what they are at all.  So
let's not say you "offered" up any evidence to support that claim.  At this
point, we can certainly see, by physics, it wasn't the street version.  Claim
a different ratio?  Well, what is it, and let's look at the charactersistics
of it in terms of Tshift.  The rest is speculation.  Me, I'm happy to focus,
and have, the discussion on what the street cars use, since we seem to agree
on that.  So, have at the article, and discuss from it, the rest is
speculation.  Regarding the bite.  Go there, try to get it back, by physics,
and btdt (and I argue just based on this discussion that I've been there more
times than most here), you better be darn good to get it back.  Why?  Cuz I
can go there at will, and still not be able to bring it back consistently.  

Dave E.
You are missing slip angle of the rear chassis.  If the angle gets high
enough, the rear DS will rotate slower than the front, NO wheel is up, no
torque lost (Trg).  The torsen can and will use total Trg, because you don't
have a traction problem yet, you have a slip angle problem.  The difference
between fwd/rwd torsen and a center torsen.

ABS.  I reiterate that for now, acceleration is the issue, not coasting or
deceleration (braking).  The benefits over Gen I so noted, the benefits over
other Center Diffs might not be all you think.

I encourage you to reread the "unlikely" statement again on page 10.
Extrapolate "unlikely" to a driveshaft in a center torsen.  I believe the
exact paragraph is Jeff and my exact definition of "bite".  A slipping rear
wheel on a center torsen, doesn't necessarily mean that the collective
transfer of Trg is reduced as you might find on a fwd or rwd torsen.

We can argue Torsens in Racing till we are blue.  Doesn't really tell us much.
I'm not convinced at all that it really matters, happy to admit I'm wrong.
And right now, no real proof has surfaced one way t'other.  Regardless, for
the purposes of explaining what is happening in YOUR car or any other audi
street car, the Torsen in Racing argument is mute.  Happy to drop it for now,
without any conclusion.

S4.  What is the range 60/40 TO what?  Does anyone know?  Why would audi do
that to begin with?  1991-1998 Torsen center 75/25/25/75, 1998> 60/40/xx/xx.
What and why comes to mind.

Randall, Phil et. al.

Denying or defying physcics doesn't make them not so.  This bite has to do
with the limitations of Torsens, not their benefit.  "Never happened to me",
is not what is transferring between your front and rear diff.  Jeff and I are
trying to explain it, what exactly are you guys trying to do.  Assure us you
are good drivers?  That you can make a awd audi go thru a turn with an rwd and
fwd attitude under all cf/slip conditions in the same turn?  I smile at that,
and say "All?  Really?"  

To all
Let me join Jeff, and say, hey, here's the article.  Here's how we explain the
bite that happened to us, in terms of the physical limitations, and exact
physical properties of the Torsen.  You want to argue those physics, please
do.  Both of us want to know what is going on.  We *think* we can do that with
the paper Torsen published, and our own btdt.  Please, give us that
alternatives to that thinking.  Driver error, to me is a bail, the easy out.
WHAT was the error?  That we drove a rwd biased torsen like rwd until it went
to fwd, then the driver should have changed the attitude, quickly and in the
same turn, while sliding sideways.  Happy to be corrected on THAT set of
errors.

Scott Justusson