Re: TORSEN CENTER - OPEN FRONT!!

[Sargent Schutt <sargent@novagate.com>]

Jouko Haapanen wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sargent Schutt <sargent@novagate.com>
>
> -- snip --
>
> >Go hot into the corner, don't hit the brakes until you begin turn-in.
> >This will set-up mild trail-braking oversteer. The rear wheels are now
> >rotating less RPM's than the front. Reach apex, apply full-throttle.
> >
>
> Some of us are not graduates of Bob Bondurant's school of trailbraking...

So what if you're not? What does that have to do with the operation of Torsen?
I'm just giving you the repeatable test everyone was clamoring for. Right off
the bat, you are avoiding the physics and mechanics of what's going on. Is this
a tacit concession?

>
>
> I was taught (by experience and threats from instructors) to always get your
> braking done before turn-in.  This specifically applies to heavy,
> pitchyawsquatdive-sensitive production sedan based cars.  Slow in, fast out
> applies here, and is, to my knowledge the best approach for fast consistent
> laps, especially in cars such as ours.

I don't completely agree with your thoughts on "faster" - I prefer to carry
more speed longer - then get back on it. "Sow in, fast out" is not faster than
"fast in, fast out" if the latter is executed properly. But that is neither
here nor there to the operation of Torsen.

Let's suppose, for one second, that you are not a perfect driver. Suppose you
do overcook the corner, and are forced into a trail-braking situation. This is
very REAL-WORLD in emergency situations. Controllable power-on oversteer is a
nice option to have for purposes of rescuing yourself in emergency manuevers.
Torsen center with open front precludes that option in my car. The only thing
I've heard from you nay-sayers is "well you shouldn't be in that situation in
the first place. Don't go poking yourself in the eye. Be a good driver like me
and don't overcook the corner."  Oooh, okay. Sorry I didn't think of that
sooner.

> Trailbraking followed by acceleration unsettles the car's balance much more
> than a steady-state entry followed by progressively increasing throttle
> application.  There are different schools of thought here, but the only time
> I will ever trailbrake is when I've obviously either missed my brake point
> or I'm carrying WAY too much speed into the turn.

That's your opinion, but it is not the least bit germane to the operation of
Torsen and the weaknesses manifest when you need a controllable power-on slide
In anything less than snow (blipping the throttle is a work-around in the
snow/ice, but it still takes significant presence of mind).

> This can be a lot more
> hairy than meeting Boris if I'm behind the wheel of the Carrera.  I wonder
> why the p-fans list does not have a permanently on-going thread on the
> treacherous, if not downright scary traits of the 911???

HOW DOES THAT ADDRESS THE MECHANICAL OPERATION OF TORSEN??? You're crawling
into any little hole you can find at this point. Give it up! Either address the
mechanics of the system or say "I'm sorry, I just don't understand how Torsen
works." Or agree that Torsen has a definite weakness when it comes to having a
controlled power-on oversteer situation. Telling me that doing so is a bad idea
is not adressing the mechanical operation of the system.

> One man's virtue is another man's vice.

Torsen is fine for those who neither know how or desire to know how to
orchestrate a controlled power-on slide in slippery conditions. Such as the
'average driver' for whom Audi designed the car.

Regards,

Sarge

91 200q TAP
86 5ktq IA