Re: TORSEN CENTER - OPEN FRONT!! closed minds?

[Sargent Schutt <sargent@novagate.com>]

Randall C. Markarian wrote:

> Sargent Schutt wrote:
>
> > Torsen is fine for those who neither know how or desire to know how to
> > orchestrate a controlled power-on slide in slippery conditions. Such as the
> > 'average driver' for whom Audi designed the car.
>
> This thread is yet another example of how people will say, "please be tolerant of
> my ideas, but yours are WRONG!"  Interesting.  I have driven many high performance
> cars, and driven them fast.  I beleive that it is much more likely that driver
> error is to blame for the "bite".

Randall, please explain how the torsen knows which diff to send more power too when
it is effectively getting BAD INFORMATION from the open front diff. In my 91 200q,
once one of the front wheels is completely lit up (spinning) the other is doing
nothing but rolling along on the outside. You see, at this point you are wasting
close to 70% of the power you are developing. But the Torsen does not know this at
that point. Is that much clear?

> Obviously you must adjust your technique when
> you change from one car to another, so just cuz your a hotshoe in you 87tq don't
> mean a 91 will feel exactly the same.  Now if the limitations that have come to
> light about Audis are too much for some maybe a nice BMW would be right up you
> alley, who knows.

No, and my 90q20v didn't feel the same either. However, a comparison between the 86
5ktq and the 91 200q *is* appropriate, which is why I've yet to mention my former
Torsen 90q20V. It's also why I don't make mention of any iteration of the wonderful
Ur-Q, or any other quattros with different dynamics and different generations of
quattro. I've made it a point, as best as possible, to discuss only the mechanical
operation of my 91 200q torsen vs my older 86 5ktq, as I have lots of experience in
those two, and they are very close in vehicle dyamics. The 91 is actually better
dynamically b/c of the Eibach/bilstein setup, yet it behaves worse. Entirely do to
the torsen center.

> By the way when do most people need a "controlled power on slide" in everyday
> situations?  I must have missed that day in drivers education, and at the track
> schools.

Most people don't need it because they don't know what to do with it. When you're
sideways and headed past the outside of your curve (for whatever reason - kid jumps
in road, ice patch, sand/gravel on road, oncoming car in wrong lane, can I stop now?)
you will find that applying the throttle may be the only thing keeping you from some
unique wood paneling on the side of your q. You need experience and presence of mind
to pull out of this situation, and the brakes will often not do the trick. BTDT in
the 86 5ktq, never hit a tree. Not so sure what would happen in the 91 200q.

They don't teach that in driver's ed in Michigan. In fact they don't teach much of
anything worthwhile in drivers ed. Steer into the skid. That's all I heard. And we
did not get to practice it. :-( At track schools they are also concerned with the
basics first. Overall, track instruction seems to be on the conservative side of the
limit. Unless they have someplace (skid pad) for you to practice power-on slides,
they won't teach it to you. They don't want to be cleaning you up off the track as
you go practicing your freshly-taught skills. They do have skid pads at some events
and schools where you do get to practice power-on slide control.

Regards,

Sarge

91 200q
86 5ktq