Hypnotized on the web

[QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>]

It appears, once again, that posts are starting towards the personal instead
of the facts.  Dave, several of us have tried to get you to understand, not
only the Torsen operation, but the limits of that operation as well.  It's
obvious you don't get it.  You want to experience it for yourself.  Well, you
haven't grasped WHAT it is and HOW it can happen yet.  Your posts are clear in
that respect.

The last attempt at your denial, is looking at a microfiche and claiming
different part numbers and "possible" external torsen components, and
"possibly" different Torsen applications.  Well, we have addressed the
external component theory of the mysterious spring, you giving some possible
credit to Torsen (with NO documentation), me giving ALL the credit to some
transmission nerd at Audi.  (BTW, looking at a microfiche for "technical"
reference would make even Mr. Phil laugh, as my v8 fiche shows the magnetic
plate diff of the auto v8, and lists fig 1 as Torsen Differential with your
Urq part number).

The final desperate attempt is to claim part number differences.  Could it
mean something?  Sure if you have documentation to that fact.  Could it mean
nothing?  Certainly, and there are no claims by audi to the contrary.  The
very fact that your 016 Urq uses the same Torsen Differential as the v8,
discounts your "possible" more than you are willing to admit.  The 6 speed is
not a 5 speed, and a 5speed is not a 6 speed.  That's all the microfiche tells
you.  

NOT ONE, of the microfiches, has any serviceable Torsen parts, period.  So ANY
claims of differences are just those.  Audi considers the unit as a unit, R&R
only.  

Now, you come back to the "I can't repeat it" argument.  The full Monty of a
Catch 22.  You have taken us for a ride, denied all logical approaches, lashed
at a few that believe and understand, and fully admit, through your posts,
that you neither understand the concept, nor accept any posts from those that
do, thru physics OR conceptualizing OR BTDT.  I might ask, when do we look in
the mirror?

I now firmly believe that you might be the most dedicated audi national on
this list.  You don't "get it" because you don't want to.  This is hardly
rocket science, and yet it just can't be?  I and others have tried to clarify,
explain, theorize, logic, numeric, and all but hop in your car and whack you
on the helmet.  

A torsen hunts, it's designed to, what makes you think that a turn is any
different than a straight line?  And what makes you think EITHER hunt is where
the traction REALLY is?  A torsen on the same low cf (all four) will hunt in a
straight line?  Why would it, if cf is constant?  It will hunt until it finds
traction, even if it is constant, on a lake of ice, that would be a long time
wouldn't it?  The torsen doesn't know it's on that lake.  The locker doesn't
care.

Bottom Line:  You think the Torsen is doing ALL the correct things for
traction.  My whole argument is that switch is too dumb to do ALL the correct
things for real world traction.  That is the greatness and the drawback of an
absolute traction device.  It takes EVERY input as traction.  Traction, as
defined by that torsen, is equal rotation of the two driveshafts (f&r).
Traction, defined in a turn, is exactly NOT equal rotation of the two
driveshafts.  Traction on low cf in a straight line is EXACTLY the equal
rotation of the two driveshafts.  A couple of problems to that device start to
become apparent, in theory AND practice.

This is very simple, and yet you make it complicated.  It's not Dave.  An
absolute traction device has compromises.  So does a locker.  The locker,
however, has predictability.  A torsen doesn't.  A compromise many of us find
a little disconcerting or "dicombobulating".  You and Phil claim
predicatability of a switch that by design, can't be.  

I posted originally to help others understand what is happening and why.  You
have taken the most basic of those elements and totally fogged them.  Not sure
why, you have proven, right here, by your own posts, you DON'T understand a
Torsen Center Differential operation or the inherent limitations of that
operation.  

I propose that since you don't get it, maybe best that you admit that.  You
are taking several posts here as attacks on you and your cars.  Don't, they
are trying to help you understand.  Because it's clearly obvious that you
don't.  No big deal Dave.  Each and every member of this list would drool to
have either one of your two rides.  Including me; with all the inherent torsen
compromises in them.  

Now, if I could only get you to drive the 540i 6spd....

:)

Scott Justusson