G60's serial for Brake fast - not

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

Dave writes again:
>my main points are:
>1) most people do no maintenance on their brakes and don't notice the
>performance drop-off.
...Until the brake pedal goes to the floor.  Then they get the full Monty.
Pads, rotors, bleed.  That doesn't change the fact that G60's are subpar, just
means the pedal goes to the floor sooner, than say a "neglected" RS2.  And the
mechanic gets more $.  Getcha now, getcha more later.  

>2) tyres and pads (not to mention shocks) are the most important and
>cost/effective upgrade for the major braking problem most of us will face - a
>single panic stop.
Doesn't address fade.  In fact you can accelerate fade by putting better tires
on your car.  Pads don't address fade either, in fact, if the brakes are prone
to fading, better pads just creates more heat.  Before you make either
recommendation understand the trade offs.  A "better" pad means a higher cf.
Higher cf pads tend to give poor initial bite (when they are cold), so your
"single panic stop" could be WORSE than a stock pad.  As they heat the rotor,
they bite better.  But where is that "best", not the first application,
"maybe" the third, or fourth, but not the 6th or 10th.  Not sure we are with
you on this Dave.  Unfortunately the trade off for higher cf pads is warped
rotors and new wheel bearings, and sometimes even a caliper rebuild (cuz the
boots MELTED), btdt on all three,  most NOT my cars.  How bout those of us
with lace style wheels, keeping that nasty Carbon Fibre brake dust from our
wheels is hardly an easy task.  And if you don't, well:  Imagine that same
"neglecting" fellow's face as he goes to wash his car after 6 months, and
finds that the Carbon had eaten it's way thru the clear coat on his Momo
Stars, permanently staining them black (btst)...  Nice tires tho.  

>3) if you expect (and demand) repeated heavy use on the road you're a danger
to
>yourself and others and you should be committed.  for repeated heavy use on
the
>track, upgrade your brakes and put up with the on-road compromises.

Please commit me, and my lovely wife NOW Dave.  Cuz all we 'demand' is some
decent braking while in rush hour.  A few others like Orin, would love to go
up and down some hills normally without that acrid smell...

>>... for example:
>the 200kgs difference between my old s2 w/g60's, and the ur-q w/g60's made a
>ton of difference in the fade characteristics when driving really hard.  the
>g60's weren't up to it in the s2 application.  then i changed pads and had
the
>rotors trimmed.  major difference.  you still noticed the 200kgs (in more
ways
>than one), but the brakes were much better.
>same with the rs2.  pedal getting a little long, changed the pads and pad
>dampers.  presto, back to normal service.
"Back to normal service" in the RS2 is what a lot of us would love to claim.
G60's isn't enough.  Club sports would be better.  Might even explore better
than the CS...

Dave, you discount fade, advocate pad swaps.  Well, a couple problems with
that.  1) try removing 8AO 863 823Q from the bottom of your RS2, and take a
hard look at it.  Better yet, plug those silly ducts, the car will be more
aerodynamic.  Betcha Audi could have saved a lot of money NOT putting those
in.  Wonder what they are really for?  Can't be fade characteristics...
2)  Or take a look at the belly pans of a 90q (sedan or coupe), S4, S6, or the
leading bumper edge of a 91 200tq.  No fade?  Look closer.  Glad Audi thought
more of fade than you Dave, on EVERY single G54/60 car since 1991.  Single
panic stop?  Not the total benchmark, the microfiche (even your RS2) hardly
backs your thinking.  On the 20vt cars, a bandaid for the poor performance of
the G60's, IMO, and Audis.  They stopped using G60s all together in 1997.
There's an interesting "fact".  So us that own the 10year span of G60's do
exactly what?  A good upgrade sure would be nice, don'tchathink?  

90% of this lists' audi braking is NOT at a track.  Hardly a reason to
discount better stopping power.  Dave, I'd trade a few sets of G60's for your
Club sports any day.  I'll even throw in a couple sets of Pagid Blues to boot.

Scott Justusson