Disingenuous claims of "open minds"

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

Dave E. writes
>no, phil and myself are not doing that scott.  we're saying it doesn't
>happen on *our* chassis.  open mind on the type 44.  *you* are the one
>saying it happens on *all* chassis.  reality check brother.

Are you sure you have Phil's concensus on that?  I'm laughing if this is the
case.  The reality is, that's the corner.  Given the description of the
device, and your admition that it *can* happen in the 44 chassis, the
discussion is really over.  You don't get that.  Fine.  I suggest a reread of
the conclusion of the Zexel paper for help here.

>we're supposed to just take your word for the bite on all chassis?

NO.  I'm an idiot.  So is the device.  A torsen doesn't know or care that it's
in a 20vurq OR a v8q.  This is just a simple logical argument.  A 44 chassis
car can exibit the behavior (you and phil agree, tho virginally admit never
experienced).  The device is the same.  End of argument.  Dave you are in a
corner.  You can debate me all day long as to YOUR interpretation.  The
problem is, you already made my argument regarding the torsen.

>this, "i'm the master, i understand" sort of bullsh*t?
Not the point.  The understanding of what is written is rather simple in this
case.  There is no N in an audi chassis described by Zexel, that's YOUR
interpretation.  Not what was written nor implied.  

>scott, you have *never* explained the bite.  you've never set out step
>by step what it is thought to be.  jeff has and, based on jeff's
>description (tight corner with rear oversteer on entry), and
>re-producing the manouever, i have tried to reproduce the bite on both
>my chassis, to no avail.

I believe if you check your archives before Dan shuts them down, Jeff
described the phenomenon to you MONTHS after I did.  Hardly need the credit.
It's there sir, you missed it.  Again.

>  so, apart from a awesome amount of verbiage,
>you've contributed very little fact, and a hell of a lot of other stuff
>(hint: think brown and smelly). 

I love you too Davey.  Again your *facts* are wrong.  You can also be
consistent and draw incorrect conclusions from them.  I'm somewhat abdurate to
your flame behavior by now.  Cuz YOU DON"T GET IT.  Not my problem.

> and we still don't have a reproducable
>event on a number of audi chassis.  it says much for your application of
>the scientific method that you refuse to countenance that you may be
>wrong/mistaken.  you have as much to do with scientific study as ralph
>nader or 20/20 does for that matter.

I'm choking on my beer I'm laughing so hard.  Go to above.  You and Phil admit
it can happen in a 44 chassis car.  Well, hey sport, hop in one and get it to
bite.  Your convictions of sex with the spider might be half convincing if you
experienced it.  Your keyboard is hardly the effective weapon here.  

>intersting how the ground has moved from 70% effort on a dry road, and
>the bite will happen, to "see you at steamboat".

Ah, yes Dave, let's change the argument.  You deny it happens all together.  I
can plant you in ANY torsen car, put you on a track and bite your white dress
on EVERY single turn.  Just using the best venue for a non believer.  I assure
you sir, my argument hasn't changed.  Your corner has.  

>fwiw, i *did* play with my ur-q and the wrx's on a nice flat grassy
>field scott.  no bite.  *hell* of a lot of fun.  doing it again in 2
>weeks.  did i spin?  sure.  was it unexpected?  nope.  but hell, those
>wrx's are just using dumb vc's.

Dave, you don't know what the bite is.  Let's get that baseline before you
fondle any further.  Find a guy that can make it happen.  Lot's of volunteers.
Your grass stains so noted.

>i'm going looking for answers here buddy.  from where i'm sitting,
>you're not.  your usual arrogance notwithstanding.

Appreciate that from one that has no clue as to what a bite is and admits it
can happen in a 44 chassis car.  And yet, with ALL that misunderstanding,
can't plop his butt in said vehicle to UNDERSTAND what is being written.  My
arrogance?  Nope, and not your buddy either.  Come to steamboat, I'll make
more than grass stains on your virgin white.  A promise.  YOU pick MY torsen
weapon, it doesn't matter to me which one.  And, btw, if that's a torsen Urq,
we can arrange that next year.  A challenge to one that doesn't get it, nor
understand it.  

You start believing, my Fat Tire bill is on you.  I promise it won't be cheap
either.

>i'll use the word disingenious scott to describe your recital of the
>zexel paper.  can't think of a more polite way.  especially the way that
>everyone is on your side (i guess i must have missed zexel's explanation
>of the bite).  laughable really.

Best get a better dictionary.  I candidly admit I'm an idiot, can sincerely
admit no published engineering papers, have fairly explained my point AND
yours, and have a FIRM conviction that the torsen does bite, and can show you
in any torsen car at Steamboat.  I'm obdurately aware of your grasp of the
english language.  You missed it?  Yes you did, they describe it.  Playskool
exercises are probably to simple for you...  Go stand in the corner again
Davey.   I laugh at myself first.  Best think you should too here.  You are
tripping on your own argument.

>news also that chocholek is the torsen man.  remember that he said he
>hated vc's/any limited slip diff as well?  sort of puts all his comments
>in perspective really.  i'm sure that his views would be interesting to
>a wrc rally/touring car/formula 1 team.  perhaps he might learn
>something.  

Be careful putting words in his mouth.  He also just happened to design the
Torsen so that it would work all together.  You might need to read Carroll
Smith's books to understand what he is saying.  A lot of us do.  You don't.
We could use the same argument for ABS discussions, and let me candidly admit
that I don't like those either.  Wouldn't want to be considered anymore
disingenious.

>and this recital of yours about a "dumb gear-jamming friction device".
>what the hell else would you call it?    using the same standards, i
>can't think of a single component in a car which is smart.  even the
>ems.  i'm beginning to think 'mericans use a different dictionary or
>something.

Given Obdurate and Disingenious (tm- Dave E.), maybe so.  A "dumb gear jamming
frictionAL (<get it right sir if you are quoting) device"  according to the
Zexel boys is "anticipating".  Gee dave, how can it be smart enough to know
WHAT is is anticipating.

Get your e-ticket for steamboat.  Accept my challenge.  Make it as difficult
for me to prove as you like Dave.  At least plant your butt in a 44 chassis
car that you disingenuously agree can bite.

Appreciate all your attempts to show otherwise, but the megolocephalic
condition hardly eminates from my keyboard.

Dave you don't get it.  You don't want to.  No big deal, just sit back and
take the time to listen to those that do.

Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ@aol.com