V8's

["James M. Dean" <aes@mhv.net>]

Larry.....Larry......Larry,

Thou hast angered the Audi Gods and many a devoted V8 listers and you
must repent.

Understanding your experience (dilemma), having gone through almost the
exact same scenario (timing belt changed, but still got a wrecked the
head), I empathize with you....BUT I have to side with Frank, John and
the other V8 listers. 

The V8 is a very nice ride and IMHO head and shoulders above a Maxima.
The Maxima and the V8 are not even in the same class of cars. I also
have a '82 Porsche 911 Targa, and can see similarities between the V8
and the 911 when it comes to handling and performance (in their
respective categories). Granted the V8 does have some common mode
failures and "weak links", but you have to be aware of them and do what
you can to perform preventive maintenance to avoid those problems and if
that still doesn't work....then suck it up and move on.

I'm sorry that you can not see past your unfortunate circumstances to
truly see the V8 for what it is....a classic cruiser with a rich
heritage, excellent drivability and performance (even a slush box like
mine).  


> Hmm>Not quite 
> >  Read AS:
> > 
> >  Gee, I bought a car that wasn't maintained correctly at best,
> 
>    Actually it was checked out by the local Quattro club guy and 
>    two local dealers. They said it seemed okay.>  
> 
> timing belt on it did bad things because some mechanic
> >  who probably had no manual or the tools required to change
> >  the belt in the first place, didn't follow procedure and
> >  the cam gear came loose.  Bent a bunch of valves in the
> >  process,
>    The mechanic was incompetent, but I've had Honda and Nissan timing
>    belts changed at Precision Tune without bad consequences. To this
>    guy's credit he did buy the tool from the Audi dealer. He just didn't
>    listen when the Audi dealer told him he was in over his head.
> Interestingly the local Audi club mechanic farms V8 timing belt repairs
>    to the dealer rather than mess with them himself. 
> 
>  sooo, all V8 Quattros are poorly made nightmare
> >  expensive engineering pieces o crap. 
>    Not poorly made but rather first year experiments in 90 and 91.
> Apparently some of the bugs were worked out in the later V8s which are
> also lots faster.  > 
> >  LCK> the maintenance cost is about the same!
> >  LCK> This car is a money pit and other Audis perform better. That's why
> >  LCK> the resale value is low and dealers are steering people away from
> them.
> > 
> >       As for the value not being there, this clearly shows you
> >       know nothing about the V8, or cars of it's class in general.
>        Yup, and I also have lots of company in the marketplace among
> dealers and owners which is why they're so cheap.
> 
> 
> >       cost, if you want to drive like a sport you should be
> >       ready to pay like a sport.  That applies to any high
> >       end car and especially a car that the is practically
> >       a hand made cost no object car. 
>    Honestly, this is subjective, but it just doesn't feel that luxurious
>    to me. It also has a 0-60 time a second faster than a Subaru 2.5 GT
> which is less than one half its cost. 
>  
> >       As for costing the same to maintain as a 928, I don't
> >       think so. I do all the maintenance and repairs on my
> >       V8Q and I assist my less fortunate friends who bought
> >       928s and V12 Beamers, and the V8Q comes out cheaper
> >       on all counts.
>    The maintenance cost comparison came from the dealer. He could be
> wrong. As for V12 7 series they have the same resale problem. People would
> rather own the V8's and therefore they bring more than the V12's on the
> resale lots.
> 
>         Besides, comparing a 928 to a V8Q
> >       doesn't make any sense, comparing a two door
> >       hatchback to a 4 door cruiser.
>     Fair enough, but I thought if the dealer was correct the Porsche
>     comparison would point out the cost commitment. 
> 
> >       not a 4 headed monster, and if you have any confidence
> >       in your mechanical abilities and knowledge, a few
> >       tools, like minded friends, there isn't anything that
> >       can't be done by the owner.  
>      Yes, but I didn't think that the questioner was a mechanic and
>      I'm certainly not. I've changed carbs and done tune ups on other
>      cars, but I'm not into the big stuff. 
> > 
> >       Nobody, or very few people, get into a high end
> >       German cars unaware that it's going to cost more
> >       to maintain and repair than a KIA or a GEO.
>      Now who is getting carried away. These cars cost significantly more
>      than a mid level Audi to maintain which is the point of my hyperbole.
>      I want this fellow to think very hard about whether he's willing to
>      commit either time or resources to a car that is really only
>      marginally nicer than a 100-A6. I actually prefer the handling
>      on the cheaper car. 
> 
> >       major goes wrong. It only they were like other
> >       cars where they could just be discarded when
> >       something major goes wrong.
>      I agree. I feel really shafted that I changed the timing belt and
>      then had it rechecked by the Audi V8 mechanic and still came out with
>      a wrecked head. I'm also not thrilled with the power steering and 
>      brakes drawing from the same reservoir so that you lose both with a 
>      leak in either. I really want out of this car even though about $4000
>      would restore it to good running condition. In fact, if there's
>      anybody out there who can just sell me the head I might bury the
>      hatchet and keep it. It's just that fixing it will cost time and 
>      whole engines are costly to ship etc etc. 
> 
> > 
> >       I can sympathise with your dilema and what you've
> >       been through with your V8. But it's not fair to
> >       blame the car when the circumsatances of your
> >       ordeal would have been identical had the car
> >       been another high end older luxury car.
>       I guess coming off a Maxima with 200,000 miles without a major
>       repair I expected more from a top of the line Audi. At most this car
>       was out of regular service for about 20,000 miles. It shouldn't have 
>       needed the amount of work that it did given the build quality. 
> 
>  Besides,
> >       it's an Audi, it seems to be the price of admission
> >       across the board for our beloved brand.
>    Yes, they are kind of funky and I really like the 93 loaner I'm
>    driving. I'm trying to work a trade for a very nice '92 100 CSQ. It
>    is much more to my liking. I like the 5 speed and the lighter weight.
>    They do more for me than cush bolsters.
> 
> 
> >       Keep badmouthing the V8Q, please, they're still in
> >       the 10K range, I'll be buying one for the wife as
> >       soon as they get just a tad cheaper.
>        I hope you get a good deal and that she enjoys it as much
>        as you do.> 
> 
> BTW John Karaski's point about the high price of other rare Audis is well
> taken too. It's just that the turbos seem worth the price of grief because
> they seem to be fun. I think their high resale and the evident devotion
> by listers seems to confirm that. If I can't get the 92 (with the upgraded
> head gasket) I may get the 91 200 turbo. I'll try it tomorrow. 

-- 
James M. Dean (JD)
Applied Energy Services
P.O. Box 60, Fishkill, NY 12524
Tel (914) 486-4134  Fax (914) 486-4701
Pager: (888) 274-7281
e-mail: aes@mhv.net
http://www1.mhv.net/~aes