Re: Da Book - over by d'ere

[John Larson <jdlarson@ix.netcom.com>]

I have to get in line with Scott. In California, a shop has to be really clear how
they charge, and what we know as "flat rate" is flat illegal. You MUST NOT charge
longer than it takes you to do the job if you're charging by the hour. You may
charge less. I charge by the job, giving it a dollar value, and use the "book
time" as an aid in an unfamiliar situation. Much of the work we do isn't even in
the common books, and the dealer book is usually waaaaaay off.
A old friend was an instructor at VW Pacific when they were doing the books for
the 100LS and the Fox. He said they used a stop watch, stopping between operations
to talk out the next step, starting the watch when they picked up the wrench. Not
a good guide for a job you've never done on a car with which you've had little
experience. I've seen really experienced dealer wrenches barely beat "book time"
on a job they've done dozens of times, and I know I couldn't do "cold" in anywhere
near that time.
I try to set a value on each and every job, based on experience with the task and
on the general overall condition of the car. Somes the customers attitude and
situation, as well as my work load come to bear as well. It's a real subjective
thing. I don't try to go where the cheap chain stores go, and try to give good
value added on every job.Part of the overall job is to take a little extra time to
identify potential  problems, and to take steps to mitigate them sooner rather
than later, giving the customer confidence that he/she is aware of future needs
and prepared for them as much as possible. Inspiring customer confidence and
loyalty is by far the best advertising, and the cheapest. In turn, it is our
responsibility to maintain that trust by being upfront and responsive to your
needs. This relationship is kept viable by good communication, both ways.
Just my $.02. Sorry if I rambled a bit.
John

QSHIPQ@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 1/26/99 10:06:35 AM Central Standard Time,
> Paul_Royal@idx.com writes:
>
> << I guess my real
> > argument with Scott's POV is not that I am dead set against charging book,
>  >but that if a mechanic does, they should be up front about it.
>   >>
> Totally agree.  I'm one that's up front.  My usual quoting method is "Book
> hourly is xx".  Several times (right mark?), I KNOW that a particular car 1)
> is not in the shape for me to make close to book, 2)  Book rate can be brutal
> to the mechanic (book is the same in salty Chicago, as it is in beautiful
> Pheonix) and 3) that I more often than not, stray from a straight "book" job,
> because I watch for needed parts as I go into and come out of a project.  For
> that, a customer gets an "A" bill.  As a rule, everyone that I see, knows
> where there is room, and where there is none.  And as a rule, I find most
> people have a budget, my job is to determine if that is reasonable or
> realistic.  I have done a lot of educating and taken a few passes, when IMO,
> my estimate of work and that of the owner are way out of whack.
>
> The philosophy of the "book" is to give a guideline to a mechanic and a
> consumer as to what is the "average" time a given project takes.  However, I
> do know that if all I'm going to do for a guy is chase "book" time on every
> job, then shortcuts are going to happen, the usual and customary eyes open
> attitude goes away, and the belt is a belt is a belt ("water pump dripping?
> Gee, you said do the belt.  Now you want the water pump?  Ok").  I argue
> easily that is hardly in the interest of the customer.  And, further, I will
> turn a lot of those away?  Why?  Because, when that guy comes back, pissed off
> because I didn't tell him this or that, how do I explain HIS philosophy of
> "book" back to him.  Why do a belt without a waterpump?  Why do a suspension
> without the wheel bearings or strut bushings?  Why do a Fuel Pump without a
> FF?  Why do a computer mod without a complete fuel system check?  Why do an
> exhaust manifold fix without milling the EM?  ad infinitum.  "Book" rates
> sometimes give you the "other" most times don't.
>
> Is it simple?  No, not at all.  In Paul's specific case, here's a shop that
> had every right to charge book, but didn't before, so Paul gets his dander up.
> I see both sides of the equation to some extent, and have been on both sides
> of the equation myself.  In Paul's case, I do think his shop owed him the
> "repeat customer" preference of at least being advised of the intention of
> "book" rate.  BTDT, I've also advised that book rate is low on several
> projects, but do get the agreement by the owner what my estimation is.  I've
> also lost my ass on several items, to good customers, some with the
> understanding that maybe on the next project I can get back right side up.
> Backing that up to be an argument for actual vs book, gets a bit more
> complicated.  I personally quote book (or worse) on every car that I don't
> know.
>
> Every project has it's own circumstances.  Being fair and consistent in
> business, seems to be what gets and retains long term relationships.  If you
> trust your mechanics to do the job right, I'm not sure the cost is really the
> issue.  Paul, for you, it was.  Is that enough to drop the confidence.  I
> don't think so, maybe just a 3 hour A rate for not asking the right questions,
> and you will from now on, I'll bet.  My own opinion is that a wrench should be
> able to charge you book (or more- but that all has to be up front) and it will
> happen on occasion.  Remember, although YOU and your car is all that matters
> to you, a shop and it's business has many of you's.  Bad, wrong and defective
> parts happens.  A single bolt on a routine "book" job.  36inches of snow, and
> it's de facto following of 10inches of salt.  These are all items that affect
> book.  Never happened to you yet?  I'll bet it has or will, if you are lucky,
> you just never knew it.
>
> Find someone you trust, stick with them.  Over time the house (shop) isn't the
> "book" winner you think.  IME, "book" is a shop target over time over many
> cars.  You pay for skill, knowlege and piece of mind.  That beats "book" every
> time, and isn't figured in it either, neither are his expensive toys, "book"
> assumes your wrench has them.  If your mechanics legacy is to beat book every
> time, and at the lowest rate, I argue you may have the wrong place to begin
> with.
>
> My .02 arbitraged thru the peso
>
> Scott Justusson