RE: A New Look at Torsens

["Dave Eaton" <Dave.Eaton@clear.net.nz>]

well gary, thanks for the redux.  i've got heartily sick of this thread and,
when reminded by some buddies this week-end while sweating and heaving at
the top of a local hill that only 4 years ago i qualified for the triathlon
world cup (albeit for fiji), i've concluded that i've got to get on with
life and i'm spending *way* too long at the keyboard in meaningless
pursuits...

however, i agree with you synopsis.  i've never experienced the bite in any
of my cars (1 scary moment in my old wr ur-quattro excepted).  i can drift
both my torsen quattro's the whole way around local roundabouts steering on
the throttle and can throw the ur-quattro around like it was a kart.  my
torsen ur-quattro has comprehensively bested the vast majority of the local
subaru hi-po club on a low cf environment.  i have had walter rohrl drive it
around a circuit (racer turns i guess) *with* his stop watch (for an
explanation of this, see "car" magazine 'lap of the nurburgring with walter
rohrl').  no bite, not even a little nip.  neither of my cars get fooled by
slip differences front and rear.  at any time.

i personally think that seeing as how spring/damper, alignment and roll
characteristics are key variables in the way in which the torsen senses
torque, that it is no surprise to me that the type 44, a luxo-barge
(relatively speaking) would exhibit behaviour which is plainly not in the
repertoire of my cars.  no disrespect intended here.  i also suspect that
usa-spec cars are differently equipped from european cars (which is the spec
of the nz cars).  different spring/dampers are just some of the changes.
then i also suspect that some of the type 44's with "bite" are also
recipients of modifed setups.

i also have had over 2 years of personal experience of a generation 1
quattro (wr) and 3 years with the torsen ur-quattro.  the 20v is a much
better car, a better handler with less understeer and better throttle
adjustability.

i also agree with another recent comment that this is all becoming moot as
the days of the dumb centre differential (torsen, vc whatever) are already
augmented by closed loop tcs systems and will soon be replaced with much
more dynamically aware clutches.  just as i welcomed the opportunity to have
an awd system which works with abs without my input, i will welcome the
opportunity to own a car withaudi's next-generation system post torsen.
it's called progress...

ps. article in one of the local papers a week or so back commenting about
the rash of accidents by young guys in hi-po awd saloons...

dave
'95 rs2
'90 ur-q
'88 mb 2.3-16

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:38:50 -0700
From: "Lewis, Gary M" <Gary.Lewis@West.Boeing.com>
Subject: A New Look at Torsens

I can't believe I'm writing this, but...

I was thinking that since both camps (actually 3, the third camp doesn't
give a rip, but they probably won't read this either) can't agree on
anything, did it ever occur to anyone that you both maybe right??

Huh???
[snip]
This is a serious challenge.  Let's not analyze or counter analyze positions
until we get a bunch of comments out on the table, then we can walk through
them one by one.

Who's got the Balls to ante up first???

Gary