ic idea clarifying to an end

[Sachelle Babbar <sbabbar@iris.nyit.edu>]

You didn't hear about the naysayers, but I did. In any event, there is a
mailing list that I've set up for the interested parties.

I find it funny that how a single idea, implied or not, takes on it's own
life on email. Someone pinpoints one piece of a whole post and runs with
it. Sort of like Johnny Dangerously (the movie) the rumor get passed down
the table and get more garbled each time. In more than one post, I
believe, I posted how I'm open for criticism. That's no problem based on
the fact that it's about the idea and not just that it won't work. I was
told that my idea for a spark that runs from an unshrouded electrode to a
piston top in 1994 wouldn't work. Two years later, those engines saw
production under Saab (I still don't know if my idea was lifted or was in
development before) Ecostar or some s**t.

Whjatever, I can't make everyone happy, so I pulled the info off the main
list and made my own for the interested. Some have their own projects
along the lines and we'll see what brews. If there are any
questions/comments from now on about this topic, email privately. The
feeling that I have to defend myself from detractors is endless and it's
better done offlist, from now on.

****************************************************************************
*Steve                                             Sachelle Babbar
*'87  5000CS Turbo 5spd 1.3-2.0 bar             <SBABBAR@IRIS.NYIT.EDU>
*Cockpit adjustable wastegate, AudiSport badge
*
*Disclaimer:"Any information contained herein is based purely on my own
*personal experience and may not necessarily reflect yours. Use caution as
*your results may vary from mine."
********************************************************************************
                                                                               



On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Buchholz, Steven wrote:

> > For myself, this is an easy idea. My only roadblock right now 
> > is finding
> > cost effective core tubing. It will work in assembly terms 
> > once I get it.
> > Sometimes working from scratch is better than reinventing an already
> > established product. My core has damaged lower tubes. You reusing core
> > idea is no good. Spearco, tap and, aluminum fabricators are expensive.
> > 
> > Haven't you ever had a creative idea? Ever wanna just follow 
> > through? I
> > don't respect some of these mustang and Honda civic guys because their
> > configurations show no imagination. You can simply buy 
> > products A B and C
> > and get power. I like Audis because you need some creative 
> > thought to put
> > things together. Sure, I can spend $750 on a boost mod, but my $10
> > wastegate controller setup works just fine. BTW: I was told that it'll
> > never work right and that my engine will always run lean.
> > 
> > In any event, this idea is a simple one for me. I've made 
> > more intricated
> > things in the past. As far as the assembly, it's going well 
> > and everything
> > is sizing up. If you don't have a good understanding of things, that's
> > fine. This is no skin off your back as far as how hard it is, 
> > so it's best
> > not to discourage someone from a project about that. Rather,
> > discouragement should come from a bad design point of view and I don't
> > believe that the list had a detail that was descriptive 
> > enough to be able
> > to fully understand. I could comment on the rest of your 
> > letter, but you
> > really need to read up on Physics, thermodynamics, and 
> > thermochemistry.
> 
> ... and to take that to it's ultimate level of abstraction ... why would you
> even need to buy the Audi that it all goes into? ... after all, you can
> probably go through piece by piece and build a better part cheaper from bits
> that you can pick up at the hardware store and understand all about it when
> you're done.  [in case it wasn't obvious, the previous statement was one of
> hyperbole]
> 
> Frankly, I don't recall seeing anyone telling you that you shouldn't go
> ahead and do what you're doing ... just people offering their suggestions as
> to possible gotchas and alternative solutions that might be just as clever.
> It is great to have ideas ... a lot of people have them ... and from what
> I've seen it is from people who are actually trying to help.  Are you always
> so quick to dismiss the suggestions of others out of hand when they disagree
> with your own thoughts?
> 
> I would say that calling the qlist members part of the "more $$$ is better"
> club would be a mistake as well ... if anything I'd say that the list is
> populated with folks who are like you seem to be who want to maximize the
> improvement per $ (AKA B4B).  There are many ways to skin a cat ... you've
> got your favorite way ... others can have theirs too!  Sometimes your idea
> will be the best one, but it is often beneficial to at least listen to what
> the others are saying ...
> 
> While it may appear to be true that Spearco parts are expensive, you should
> realize that one of the reasons they are so widely used ... even by
> professional racing teams who could well afford to roll their own from
> copper tubing if they wanted to ... is that they do provide a good amount of
> B4B.  They can spend money to research ways to make their product more
> efficient or to develop manufacturing processes to help make them cheaper.
> While you might be able to make something for cheaper, some might argue that
> you couldn't make something that works as well as what they have for less
> ... 
> 
> One idea that I know others have used is to scour wrecking yards ... an
> excellent source for cheap parts IMO.  I've heard that turbo Saab ICs can be
> had for little more than a song.  With the number of turbocharged cars that
> were built in the '80s of worldwide manufacture it sure seems to me that if
> you knew how much cooling you were looking for and some ideas about
> acceptable dimensions you might be able to find a workable core cheaply
> enough so that you could pay someone to weld the endcaps on for you and
> still save money over the "roll your own" from copper ... and you'd probably
> have the turbulators too!  :-)  Perhaps you'll even score a bonus
> "intercooled" badge from the back of the car ...
> 
> My reply to your coming back to your homebrew boost mod as a victory over
> the naysayers again is that while you may have something that cost you a
> couple bucks to do, and which has worked well in your experience, that still
> does not mean that it "works."  No matter how you do it you will assume an
> amount of risk with any performance improvement like a boost mod that
> doesn't significantly change the basic mechanicals of the engine.  I don't
> care if you go with your own mod or one from TAP, IA or SuperChips there is
> no disputing it.  The only thing is that there will be more or less risk
> depending on how you do it.  While I wouldn't claim to be the expert on this
> risk assessment, I would certainly believe that a mod that faked the control
> system into operating beyond the limits it was originally intended is going
> to be more risky than one that modified the system in a way that the control
> system was programmed to operate at those levels.  Bottom line, using a
> "fake it" approach over the long term will end up in a higher number of
> major failures as compared to one that was designed to operate at the higher
> boost.  Am I telling you to rip your mod out of your car?  Of course not!  I
> am just stating this so that any others who might consider it can make their
> own choice as to how much risk they are willing to assume.  
> 
> I would argue that messages talking in detail about where you found
> particular pieces that you are thinking about using for your homebrew IC are
> not germane to this list, and as I mentioned in my earlier private message,
> I would appreciate it if that sort of discussion occurred betwixt all those
> who are interested in the project.  Once the project is complete I would
> love to hear the final report for the project.  That is my opinion, but hey,
> I'm just another scrubsider ...
> 
> Steve Buchholz
> San Jose, CA (USA)
>