Re: transmission slipping on 5kcst?

[Mike Arman <armanmik@n-jcenter.com>]

>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:07:23 EST
>From: B070410@aol.com
>Subject: Re: transmission slipping on 5kcst?
>
>I want to thank all that responded to my post.  The shop that I've decided
to 
>take the Audi to has repeatedly assured me that the quote includes
rebuilding 
>of the transmission, differential if needed and torque converter. Steve, the 
>guy I've been talking to there said the max he can charge me above and
beyond 
> the quote is 10% regardless of what additional parts/repair needed.  This
is 
>covered by a 1 year warranty.  He is reputable shop and has done Audi's 
>before, his specialty being performance transmissions.  I've checked with
the 
>BBB and he has no complaints on record.


Stop. Take a deep breath. Let's break this problem down into its component
parts.

1. The tranny is slipping: A common problem on this vintage car. The three
speed automatic is marginal for the 5K car, and even more marginal with turbo.

2. There's nothing wrong with the differential. There IS a seal between the
diff and the tranny which leaks, and if ignored, running the  diff without
oil will ruin it. Why does he think the diff is bad? Replace the seal, run
synthetic oil, problem solved. If upon inspection, the oil level in the
diff is OK, just replace with synthetic as a "be prepared" preventive
maintenance item. The diff DOES NOT share lubricant with the tranny, so a
bad tranny doesn't mean a bad diff! I begin to wonder about this guy's Audi
experience.

3. When rebuilding/replacing the automatic transmission, the torque
converter should be carefully and thoroughly flushed and cleaned. The worse
your tranmission is/was at time of replacement, the more crap will be in
the torque converter to ruin the new one. Sounds like your problem is new,
so only a careful flushing will be needed.

4. The engine problems started when some clown decided to change something
to "compensate" for something else which wasn't even wrong anway. Find
whatever he did and change it back, then find the REAL problem and fix it.


NOW - you can buy a complete transmission from a you-pull-it junkyard for
under $100. Buy one from a car that hit something - that way, you know that
the car was running well enough to drive into something hard, ergo, the
tranny is good. If you see what seems to be a cherry automatic transmission
equipped 5K in a junkyard, it is very likely that the tranny is bad, which
is why it is there!

The transmission INCLUDES the differential - the parts yards won't know the
difference if you take the whole, ugly greasy thing, or if you remove the
four bolts which hold the actual tranny to the diff housing. Your guy in
the transmission shop CANNOT rebuild an Audi differential for anything like
reasonable money - replacement with another used one is the only practical
way to do this, and I'm willing to bet that he intends to do exactly that.


If this were MY car, here's what I'd do: Go to the u-pull-it and get a
tranny from a wrecked 5K. Stop at pressure car wash on way home and clean
it off. Split diff and tranny, replace seal. Don't refit diff to tranny
just yet.

Remove diff and tranny from my car (big, nasty, dirty job BTW). Remove
torque converter from flywheel (make alignment marks so it goes on the same
orientation it came off). Flush and clean torque converter, refit.

Install new diff and output shaft (runs through center of diff housing to
tranny); this includes half shaft R&R (inner half at least, good time for
boot replacement if needed), etc.

Make sure output shaft is properly seated in torque converter! This is
important - see the Bentley (and if you have this done by someone else,
make sure THEY see the Bentley) since the tranny can be assembled to the
diff housing with the shaft improperly seated - it WILL go back together,
but the torque converter and/or rear pump in the transmission will die very
soon thereafter!

Install tranny, fill all fluids, road test.

Not a small job, and really needs to be done on a lift. This is a major
PITA to do at home, and worse outside in the snow.

I think the biggest problem here is sourcing the transmission - replace
with good used one, or rebuild yours?

I note that very recently another lister described rebuilding his automatic
transmission, replacing only the clutch packs and some bands. The key is
that he did NOT have a catastrophic failure, and the system wasn't
contaminated. Cost was under $200, and the diff and half shafts stayed in
the car. The tranny comes off the diff with only four nuts!





  My dilemma now is this.  I had taken 
>the car to the dealer for the diagnosis, the day the transmission acted up, 
>the initial start-up of the car was sluggish, it acted like it needed a 
>tune-up, it idled rough, but when accelerating ran fine, which was unusual 
>since I had just had a tune-up and had the injectors flushed.  It had been 
>running great!  So when I took it to the dealer, we made mention of that.  
>They in turn made an adjustment to the "warm up regulator", they said to
help 
>the transmission shift smoother, this would allow us to transport to shop or 
>home.   I left the dealership and made 1 stop at my mother's house, the car 
>would crank but would quickly die.  I left it there and got a ride back to 
>work. I'm assuming this regulator can be set back to it's original position 
>after/if I rebuild? The car ran smoothly without any noticeable jerking or 
>hesitation, it just idled rough and then couldn't get it restarted, though I 
>only tried it for less than 5 minutes and left it.  The service rep at Audi 
>said let it go, that I may experience continuous faltering after 
>maintenance/repair.


Undo what he did, and avoid this dealer in the future. How the heck is an
engine "warm-up regulator" going to make the transmission shift smoother?



  I have had the follwing repair/maintenance done in the 
>past 2 months: ignition switch and multifunction switch replaced, turbo
boost 
>line repaired, tune-up, injectors flushed, struts, alignment & 1 cv boot 
>replaced.  The previous owner had the engine overhauled, new computer, 
>brakes, tires, timing belt, distributor and some wiring done just prior to
my 
>acquisition.  In all I've spent $1100 max on all including the car.  The
only 
>other maintenance I was ready to do was the wheel bearings.  There are some 
>smaller issues, but minor ones like no instrument lights.  Needless to say, 
>the car is at mom's house, the issue, to continue forward or let it go.
It's 
>a gamble I guesse.  Right now we're crossing our fingers and hope we get 
>lucky.  This list has been a great help, I see so much here and I surprise 
>myself (and the service rep at Audi) at how much I know about this car and 
>it's quirkieness.  It''s funny that when I've called shops, that once I 
>mention  I own an Audi, they all say..Oh, I'm so sorry!  
>Sorry, this is so lengthy, (just realized)  Again thanks to all!
>
>

Incidentally "flushing the injectors" is actually just "flushing the
customer's wallet". You can get a bottle of Techron (make sure you get the
real thing) at Wal-Mart for $6, dump it in the gas tank, and get better
results. A bottle of Techron every three months helps keep the monkey lads
away!



>Linda
>1986kcst
>


Best Regards,

Mike Arman