[Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability & Replacement Cost (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)
Quincy Chiang
b5quattro at shaw.ca
Wed Aug 31 02:14:45 EDT 2005
What's the lowest price you've seen/found K04s with inlet pipes? I thought $2700 is pretty decent.
Quincy
----- Original Message -----
From: j y <jimnetpa at yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability & Replacement Cost (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)
> "supposedly K03s are more expensive than K04s!" = Nah...when my
> K03s were replaced 2 years ago..the delaer price list had them
> listed in the $1400 range for the pair...ICs were listed for $800
> (I've since replaced them with AWE ICs for $1200). I wouldn't be
> surprised if K03s are even cheaper today..but at dealer
> prices..they were less than K04s. Also, I've seen K04s listed for
> less than what that lister on AW paid. You definitely have to SHOP
> AROUND when buying parts for these cars - I do.
>
>
> Quincy Chiang <b5quattro at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Rohan and all,
>
> I got this form someone on the AW B5-S4 forum today who recently
> went to Stage 3-. Here're the cost of his upgrade (all prices
> below are USD):
>
> $2,700 - K04 turbos w/ inlet pipes (supposedly K03s are more
> expensive than K04s!)
> $325 - Piggie downpipes
> $450 - RS4 clutch
> $40 - manual boost controller (required to run with K03 chipped
> software)$2,500-3,000 - Labour + miscellaneous stuff (hoses, RS4
> engine and tranny mounts...)
> = $6515 USD
> (= $8144 Cdn)
>
> Now if your car wasn't chipped before, than add the cost of that,
> about $700 depending on which flavour. Then add $1000 for an
> exhaust to compliment the heavier breathing, all of a sudden
> you're sitting at $8,215. if you're anywhere close to 60k miles,
> you better get the timing belt and water pump (and othere related
> stuff) done as well, so add another say $600. The total comes to
> $8,815 ($11,019 Cdn). What you get is a much more reliable torque
> monster, probably getting 350hp at the crank, not too shabby at all.
>
> So lets say the turbos go in 3 years time, you'll have to save up
> $245/month starting now for this procedure. But then we haven't
> even touched other stuff yet, like tires, brakes, suspension and
> other miscellaneous stuff that probably won't cost a whole lot to
> fix, but will seriously put a dent to you K04 fund when you add
> them all up.
>
> For me right now from the financial side of things, if sh!t hits
> the fan in say 3 years, I can probably afford to go Stage3-, but
> that means I'll have nothing that year going ito my savings and
> RRSP, and I'll be living pretty poorly for a while. I can do it
> but common sense keep telling me this ain't right.
>
> The worst part is, looking at the North American auto market for
> the next 2 model years, there's nothing out there I like and can
> afford. The Mini Cooper S is the only car right now that I like...
> I'm just freaking torn on what to do!
>
> Quincy
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rohan Singh
> Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] Turbos Reliability & Replacement Cost
> (was: 2000 S4 Running Hot)
>
> > The discussion about turbo failure always gives me the
> > jitters after hearing the mileage at which S4 owners
> > experience this! I bought my 2001 S4 with a build date
> > of July 2000 in August last year in Toronto with 78K
> > kilometres - not miles. The car now has 103K
> > kilometres and the turbo's sound fine except for a
> > slight "dentist drill" sound when under load between
> > 1500 - 2200 rpm - I don't really remember hearing this
> > sound for the first few thousand kilometres after
> > buying it, but again I am beginning to get to know my
> > car a lot more after tuning in to this forum and
> > perhaps I wasn't paying attention before. I can't hear
> > any sound at very low rpms or above 2200 RPM. I have
> > no idea how the car was driven by the first owner but
> > the car was in great condition and completely stock
> > when I bought it from an Audi dealer with the 2 year
> > certified warranty. I have kept the car stock and
> > changed the oil (synthetic) every 4000 kilometres
> > since 78K. The car runs beautifully and I enjoy
> > driving it every single day - never fails to give me a
> > rush! I always warm up and cool down. I keep wondering
> > at what point I am going to experience turbo failure.
> > I do know that if the cost of replacing a turbo is
> > around $7K Canadian and this happened after my audi
> > assured warranty expired next July, I would go ahead
> > and do it. Just the taxes on a new audi A4 (lets say
> > 50 grand after really loading it up) come close to 60%
> > of that cost! I feel that the styling is timeless and
> > that it will go down as an Audi classic. Does anyone
> > know about the total cost of upgrading to to a full
> > package for the K04's (turbo's, chip, exhaust,
> > etc.)and if there are any independent shops in Toronto
> > that do this kind of work? If my turbo's go, they had
> > better do so before my Audi Assured warranty expires
> > next summer! Maybe I should just drive my car hard for
> > the next few months hoping that they will die out
> > before the warranty expires!
> >
> > Rohan
> > '01 S4 Manual
> >
> > --- Quincy Chiang wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Grant, JY and all,
> > >
> > > This has been an interesting and informative
> > > discussion. From what I've read and heard on these
> > > list and AW forums, it seems like luck has more to
> > > do with the turbos failing than anything else.
> > > Obviously chipping kills them a lot sooner, and
> > > people they have chipped their 2.7t should realize
> > > that, but even non-chipped car are not safe from it
> > > either. Someone on this list 2 weeks ago (sorry I
> > > forgot who) had his turbos bit the dust at the
> > > tender age of 52k miles, and he supposedly followed
> > > all the usual procedures like proper warmup,
> > > cooldown and uses synthetic oil, and his car wasn't
> > > chipped.
> > >
> > > So we've established how and why the turbos fail (ok
> > > maybe not, it still seems more like a black art), my
> > > next question is how many owners are actually
> > > willing to shell out $7500 Cdn ($6000 USD) to
> > > replace those pesky K03s when they meet their maker?
> > >
> > > Based on the above and maybe one other recent
> > > failure cases (both cars not chipped), lets say the
> > > turbos die at somewhere around 55,000 miles
> > > (~88,500km), right now I'm more than half way there,
> > > and I expect to get there within 3 years. At that
> > > mileage, I'd definitely have the timing belt job
> > > done while the engine's out, and perhaps replace the
> > > clutch as well, so that'd bring the total to nearly
> > > $10,000 Cdn ($8000 USD). But here's the kicker, why
> > > would you put in K03s and you can get K04s for just
> > > a little more money? It makes sense from the
> > > reliability perspective, and I'm not one to refuse
> > > some extra power. But once you do that, it quickly
> > > snowballs into other things to get a decent stage 3-
> > > setup, like K03 chip/software, higher fuel pressure
> > > regulator, MBC, exhaust and maybe downpipes. Then
> > > you'll need some custom tuning with a VAG-COM, which
> > > can be fun and/or frustrating at the same time.
> > >
> > > The thing is that once the turbos die, you now must
> > > replace them just to get the car running, otherwise
> > > the car's worthless, can't even sell it. And once
> > > you've committed to turbo swap (either straight K03s
> > > or a stage 3- setup), you better keep the car for a
> > > long long time to recoup the cost.
> > >
> > > So now with all that in perspective, how many here
> > > thinks they have no problem going down this road in
> > > say 2-3 years? Personally I'm having a tough time
> > > justifying this potentially hugh expense,
> > > especically when I expect to get my own place in a
> > > year's time. I'd like to hear your opinions and
> > > comments.
> > >
> > > Quincy
> > > '01.5 S4 - keep or sell?
> > > '90 CoupeQ - not going anywhere
> > > '05 MCS - sitting at the dealer's lot calling my
> > > name...
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Grant
> > > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:00 am
> > > Subject: Re: [Biturbos4] 2000 S4 Running Hot
> > >
> > > > This is probably very good info, but nothing is
> > > that clear-cut.
> > > > ALL turbos are delicate and fail. S4 engine bays
> > > run hot. Oil
> > > > cokes
> > > > at turbo temperatures. QED.
> > > >
> > > > Its not only the early ones, although I do
> > > understand that the oil
> > > > feed/drain plumbing was undersized and thus jy is
> > > (to the best of
> > > > my
> > > > limited knowledge, I dont have the statistics - no
> > > one does)
> > > > largely
> > > > correct.
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > > On Aug 29, 2005, at 11:41 PM, j y wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > R,
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned in my msg to you last night - ONLY
> > > THE EARLY S4s
> > > > (like
> > > > > mine) had the risk of catastrophic turbo
> > > failure. It had NOTHING
> > > > to do
> > > > > with the TYPE OF OIL USED - It had to do with a
> > > POOR turbo
> > > > design (the
> > > > > oil inlets and ducts were too small thus
> > > restricting oil flow
> > > > and its
> > > > > cooling ability) that was corrected in the MY
> > > 01.5 (2001.5) S4s.
> > > > So,
> > > > > early S4s that experienced catastrophic turbo
> > > failure under, or
> > > > just
> > > > > beyond the warranty period, were given UPGRADED
> > > (K03)
> > > > replacements by
> > > > > AOA.
> > > > >
> > > > > YOU NEED TO FIND OUT WHEN YOUR S4 WAS BUILT. The
> > > build date
> > > > should be
> > > > > on the side of the driver door. The build date
> > > on my S4 was
> > > > 11/99. It
> > > > > was sold as a MY 2000 S4. I CLEARLY own an EARLY
> > > S4. There is no
> > > > need
> > > > > for you to purchase K04s unless you plan to
> > > siginificantly
> > > > modify the
> > > > > power, like I said in my msg to you. I hope this
> > > helps clear
> > > > things up
> > > > > for you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > r harout wrote:
> > > > >> so let me ask a question (nervoulsy)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> How likely is it that I was have catastrophic
> > > turbo
> > > > >> failure if the car has only run with regular
> > > oil--but
> > > > >> chnaged frequently?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Inevitable? What are the signs? I will use
> > > Mobil 1
> > > > >> moving forward, but the owners before me did
> > > not.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Maybe I should order the K04s now so I get them
> > > in
> > > > >> time for failure!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- Grant wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Agreed. Cool is actually not good. The only
> > > > >> > regular failures I know
> > > > >> > of are turbo-related failures in which the
> > > oil
> > > > >> > coked. Coking takes
> > > > >> > place WAY above 200deg. If you find
> > > differently,
> > > > >> > please contact the
> > > > >> > steel industry - they want your technology
> > > badly.
> > > > >> > As to "how hot"?
> > > > >> > the flash point for mobil1 is >400deg (F).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Admittedly, the hot underhood temperatures
> > > > >> > contribute to this, but I'm
> > > > >> > nto sure how much it improves things to
> > > extract the
> > > > >> > heat to the
> > > > >> > radiator, which then blows the heat through
> > > the
> > > > >> > engine bay, which .....
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > So who's had a turbo failure that ran
> > > synthetic,
> > > > >> > cooled down after hard
> > > > >> > runs, and warmed up in the cold?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Anyone?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > And who's had a ring job under ANY
> > > circumstances.
> > > > >> > Anyone?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Grant
> > > > >> > On Aug 29, 2005, at 2:53 PM, costco wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > A lot of research has been performed with
> > > regards
> > > > >> > to cylinder wear vs.
> > > > >> > > coolant temperature in the 70's and 80's
> > > amongst
> > > > >> > the automakers.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > 192 degrees F is actually optimal in most
> > > engines.
> > > > >> > More or less is
> > > > >> > > application specific. I would never put a
> > > 160
> > > > >> > degree thermostat into an
> > > > >> > > engine that prior had a 180 degree
> > > thermostat.
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biturbos4 mailing list
> Biturbos4 at www.audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/biturbos4
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
More information about the Biturbos4
mailing list