[urq] '83 UrQuattro - Now CIS Potential

[ben swann]

Javad,

Hope we're saying the same thing just in a slightly different way.  And
hope folks aren't thinking I'm smokin' something funny.

I will be doing basically the same/similar modifications that were done
with your helpful expertise on the 5ktq avant prior to its untimely
demise.  I'll probably use a little more agressive cam.

MC-1 Engine rebuilt incl. following -
	T03/K26 hybrid turbo.
	Elgin 260i254e cam
	adjustable cam sprocket - set for 0 tested both advanced and
retarded and worked as expected.
	new valve seals, lifters & techtonics springs
	new piston rings, connecting rod and main bearings, all new
seals.
	2-Piece Exhaust manifold, highflow cat and 2.5" Stebro exhaust.
	All visible casting flash removed from components.
	Mild port and polish to head and manifolds with ports matched.
	Bypass valve located in intercooler where untapped hole was
with bypass
	flow directed toward turbo
	Supplementary fuel injector installed in intercooler controlled
by 034EFI
 - injector is inline just prior to throttle body hose.
	200 Flywheel, Clutch and Pressure plate, slave cyl.
	QLCC chip with variable resistor modded ECU, Schrapnel Knob + 2
bar SJM
	spring for control – currently set for 16 PSI.

My educated guess is the setup was good for just shy of 250 HP before
enabling the supplementary injector, as that is basically the limit of
the CIS injection system, and I could crank the boost until
detontation..  After the injector gets turned on 275 or more??? I
suppose that is what remained to be proven.

Unfortunately another car cut in front of the avant before I had a
chance to test the 034EFI mod - but that has been tested elsewhere, so
I have no reason to expect any less.

I'm doing my best to recoup the loss of the avant, and building on what
I've learned so far.  One comment I can say for sure, is that car was
slightly faster than the Lehman chipped 200 20V avant I have now - but
that will change too.

OK - I guess we need to qualify relatively easily, as some work went
into the engine as well as some $$$, but BTDT makes it easier and
better the second go around.


Let me know if I'm off base here.

Ben

----- Original Message -----
From: JShadzi at aol.com
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2003 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: [urq] '83 UrQuattro - Now CIS Potential

> Ben, I'll have to agree with John, and I think I've told you this
> before as well, there is no easy hp above about 225 with any of
> the Audi CIS systems, everything is against it including the CIS
> fuel capacity, the CIS airflow capacity and the factory exh.
> manifold restriction.  250-300 is much easier with EFI, but even
> then the IC, exh. manfiold and turbo selection will be critical,
> EFI will give the airflow potential and fuel accurately, but EFI
> won't flow air efficiently like the right combo of turbo, IC and
> induction/exhaust can.
>
> With 15psi I ran 230hp at the wheels in my 80tq, I'm hitting the
> dyno next week to do another baseline with 15psi running the new
> 034efi Stage II system with programmable distributor ignition.
> The car has never run better or faster, I'm estimating that I'm
> making at least 10% more power to the wheels (at the same 15psi)
> due to the ignition tuning alone, but the dyno will only tell.
>
> Like John says, with CIS the most you can hope for is to tune it
> to about 1.8Bar and live happily with it,anything more will just
> piss it off and render little results.  There has also been a lot
> of BS out there about swapping in this Mercedes distributor and
> that Porsche injector, I don't buy it cause I tried it myself (pre-
> EFI development) and have yet to see anyone else implement it
> successfully.  The CIS system works VERY well in the stock
> application and in slightly boosted applications, but its not a
> high performance fuel system and its extremely limited as is the
> whole 10v system  (excluding the motor itself) in stock trim.
>
> I'm a big fan of the 10v, but in order to make 20v power (which it
> will) it needs to be in a similar level of trim, and then the
> power starts coming "easier"
>
> Javad
> 80tq.com
>
> >
> >>serious upfront investment, and at what return.  I know I can
> crank an
> >>easy 250-300 out of an MC which I'll rebuild for the car, and will
> >>already have two motors to choose from.
> >
> >Ben,
> >
> >No one can "crank an easy 250-300 hp out of an MC."  A few of the
> best Audi
> >tuners here in the NW that have instrumented and measured the
> heck out of
> >these cars aren't getting actual HP near that range.  My
> understanding is
> >that the CIS leans out before you get there and you really need
> EFI to see
> >250+ consistently with the MC engines.
> >
> >Therefore, to get there is $$$ or time or both whether you go EFI
> MC or
> >20vt with Audi's EFI.
> >
> >My suggestion is to make the car as fast and DEPENDABLE as you
> can for a
> >reasonable outlay of cash and enjoy it.  Unless you stole the car
> when you
> >bought it, you won't recover what you put into it, IMHO.
> >
> >If anyone has the "holy grail" of MC, non-EFI power and can prove it,
> >please let me know!
> >
>
>