[s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

[R. Mair]

Happened once to my friends 2003, somewhere around 30k miles I believe. The dealer was however very compassionate about the problem, fixed it up pretty quick and offered a loaner car.

Rolf
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Pasqualoni, James E 
  To: 'R. Mair' ; Taka Mizutani 
  Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:12 PM
  Subject: RE: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's


  My friend's 98 Outback 2.5l has had the heads rebuilt twice due to head
  gasket failure.  Twice.  With only 75k on the odo.  So how do the 2.0 (WRX)
  and 2.5 (Sti) turbo motors differ from the NA ones?  Lower compression,
  etc???

  -----Original Message-----
  From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
  [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of R. Mair
  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:59 PM
  To: Taka Mizutani
  Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
  Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

  OK, i guess i need to make this clear enough to understand. First, I've
  spent weeks at Bosch headquarters, and countless hours in schools across the
  country learning and dealing with engine management systems for VW and Audi
  cars. I believe I can speak  intelligently on this subject. 
  Audi has had Bosch supply most electrical parts for decades. This includes
  alternators, starters, volt regs. etc, as well as the bulk of the engine
  management systems. Oh... and filters etc... Bosch in general has built some
  amazing systems. The old CIS units of the  late 80's, early 90's were so
  outdated, yet passed California's strict emissions test. Bosch and Germans
  cars were one and the same it seemed. Bosch clearly has had some quality
  control issues here of late. As a car manufacturer, what do you do? do you
  suddenly ditch a major supplier in search of another one that has never
  worked with your cars? It would take YEARS for another company to pick up
  where Bosch left off. Would that be the best way to go or do you assume
  Bosch will fix the problems sooner than later? Valeo had problems with
  heater cores in mid-80's VW's. A recall was offered. In general, their
  quality is somewhat better today. 

  so what you are saying Taka is that Audi should look into a crystal ball and
  see that in 50k miles, they are going to have MAF failures, or perhaps
  coolant sensor failures, or even notice that ICU's were going to fail at
  some point? None of these particular parts are placed wrong in the engine
  compt! I'm not thrilled with Audi overall myself, I think i've made that
  clear in previous posts. but you are not correct in some of your
  assumptions. Turbo placement is not the major factor for the failings in
  Audi's. The initial rec. by Audi to extend oil changes and use conventional
  motor oil was not a smart move. Yes, Dumb Dumb Audi! Given  synth oil and 5k
  miles, you won't see a tenth of the failures. In my garage, i've seen allot
  more 1.8t failures than 2.7, as 2.7's came from the factory with synth oil
  installed. but they still suggested 10k oil changes. Still not good. 

  You don't know 2.7's very well Taka. For the most part, they are pretty darn
  tough, as far as the internals go. There was a 01 S4 speedvision cup car at
  the Duryea hillclimb a few weeks ago, actually took fourth fastest overall.
  It had stand alone engine management, K04 turbos and about 2500 race miles
  on the stock, un touched bottom end. I'll bet it won't be rebuilt for some
  time after that. What i was ref. to a time bomb being, is what mods do to a
  stock engine. I'll take ANY audi turbo thats huffed to the hilt on a stock
  engine before i'd do the same on a Japanese engine. 


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Taka Mizutani
    To: R. Mair
    Cc: calvinlc at earthlink.net ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com
    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:25 AM
    Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's


    Rolf-
    You're excusing a ton of faults, blaming the suppliers?!? The OEM is
  responsible for ensuring that the quality of the components that suppliers
  sell them are up to par, otherwise it reflects poorly on the OEM. Who do you
  think people blame when there is a problem with their cars? Do they blame
  Valeo, saying "man, Valeo makes crappy electrical components." No. They
  blame Audi. 

    The turbos on the 2.7T go rather regularly- it's not the extended oil
  change intervals that kill them- it's the design of the engine. That same
  little K03 turbo lives much longer in the 1.8T engine. Putting the turbos
  where they're located in the 2.7T engine compartment is what shortens their
  life- not enough cooling, IMO.

    What about the other stuff:

    instrument cluster issues- VW A2, A3, A4; Audi type 44, C4, C5, B5, B6, D2
    control arm issues- B5, B6, C5
    transmission issues- D2
    oil leak issues- D2
    ignition coils and ignition components- C4, B5
    diff seals- ongoing since type 44
    turbo failure- B5, B6, C5
    MMI issues- D3
    miscellaneous electrical problems- ongoing since type 44 days or earlier,
  hasn't gotten better

    Time bomb on the Subaru? No more so than the C5 2.7T- you chip the 2.7T,
  it's just a matter of when, rather than if, the turbos fail. RS4 turbos fail
  much less frequently- larger oil passages, much thicker impeller shaft.
  Coming from a auto mechanic, I'm pretty shocked that you're willing to state
  that the Audis are so much better than other cars out there. 

    I happen to like Audis, that's why I've owned them- no way would I put up
  with that stuff if I didn't. But your statements are just outrageous. Lexus
  simply doesn't have these issues, as a shining example of a very complex car
  with tons of "stuff" in it that doesn't break very often. They also don't
  blame their suppliers for problems. 

    Taka
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