[s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

Tue Sep 6 21:46:13 EDT 2005

Hey, i was NEVER offered a loaner car when the Allroad went in for routine service and the occ. wierd stuff. Just last year i DEMANDED a loaner every time, because after all the courtesy call lady asked if it was ever offered, so i assumed i was entitled. It's funny how much quicker your car gets done at the dealer when you are driving around one of their new jettas  ;-)

Rolf

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: LL - NY 
  To: R. Mair 
  Cc: Pasqualoni, James E ; Taka Mizutani ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 9:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

  Yeah, I wonder if Audi would do that:

  Be compassionate - Bwaahahahahaah
  Fix it quickly - U vant it ven?
  Offered a Loaner car? - Vat, ve haf Loaner Karrs? Bwahahahaha

  As for durabilty, in WRC, haven't been too many Subie engine failures. Running into things, well that's another story. 

  Again, not saying I don't like (old) Audi. One of the reasons I jumped on my S6 was that
  I couldn't picture myself doing a modded A4 1.8T or S4TT (although the avant would've been QUITE helpful) due to the comparatively lesser build quality (not by much, but it's there). Yes, the Audi's are more tanklike than Subies (most noticable in the interior materials and paint finish) but they've lost a little of that something that made them special when even they, Ja!, had to build to a price in order to stay competitive. In the meantime, lets accept the cars for what they are, expensive AWD cars with potential and class, lesser priced cars with potential and decent build. 

  LL - NY

  On 9/6/05, R. Mair <waves at comcast.net> wrote: 
    Happened once to my friends 2003, somewhere around 30k miles I believe. The dealer was however very compassionate about the problem, fixed it up pretty quick and offered a loaner car. 

    Rolf
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Pasqualoni, James E
    To: 'R. Mair' ; Taka Mizutani
    Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:12 PM 
    Subject: RE: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

    My friend's 98 Outback 2.5l has had the heads rebuilt twice due to head
    gasket failure.  Twice.  With only 75k on the odo.  So how do the 2.0 (WRX) 
    and 2.5 (Sti) turbo motors differ from the NA ones?  Lower compression,
    etc???

    -----Original Message-----
    From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
    [mailto: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of R. Mair
    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:59 PM
    To: Taka Mizutani
    Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
    Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

    OK, i guess i need to make this clear enough to understand. First, I've
    spent weeks at Bosch headquarters, and countless hours in schools across the 
    country learning and dealing with engine management systems for VW and Audi
    cars. I believe I can speak  intelligently on this subject.
    Audi has had Bosch supply most electrical parts for decades. This includes
    alternators, starters, volt regs. etc, as well as the bulk of the engine
    management systems. Oh... and filters etc... Bosch in general has built some
    amazing systems. The old CIS units of the  late 80's, early 90's were so 
    outdated, yet passed California's strict emissions test. Bosch and Germans
    cars were one and the same it seemed. Bosch clearly has had some quality
    control issues here of late. As a car manufacturer, what do you do? do you 
    suddenly ditch a major supplier in search of another one that has never
    worked with your cars? It would take YEARS for another company to pick up
    where Bosch left off. Would that be the best way to go or do you assume 
    Bosch will fix the problems sooner than later? Valeo had problems with
    heater cores in mid-80's VW's. A recall was offered. In general, their
    quality is somewhat better today.

    so what you are saying Taka is that Audi should look into a crystal ball and 
    see that in 50k miles, they are going to have MAF failures, or perhaps
    coolant sensor failures, or even notice that ICU's were going to fail at
    some point? None of these particular parts are placed wrong in the engine 
    compt! I'm not thrilled with Audi overall myself, I think i've made that
    clear in previous posts. but you are not correct in some of your
    assumptions. Turbo placement is not the major factor for the failings in
    Audi's. The initial rec. by Audi to extend oil changes and use conventional
    motor oil was not a smart move. Yes, Dumb Dumb Audi! Given  synth oil and 5k
    miles, you won't see a tenth of the failures. In my garage, i've seen allot 
    more 1.8t failures than 2.7, as 2.7's came from the factory with synth oil
    installed. but they still suggested 10k oil changes. Still not good.

    You don't know 2.7's very well Taka. For the most part, they are pretty darn 
    tough, as far as the internals go. There was a 01 S4 speedvision cup car at
    the Duryea hillclimb a few weeks ago, actually took fourth fastest overall.
    It had stand alone engine management, K04 turbos and about 2500 race miles 
    on the stock, un touched bottom end. I'll bet it won't be rebuilt for some
    time after that. What i was ref. to a time bomb being, is what mods do to a
    stock engine. I'll take ANY audi turbo thats huffed to the hilt on a stock 
    engine before i'd do the same on a Japanese engine.

       ----- Original Message -----
       From: Taka Mizutani
       To: R. Mair
       Cc: calvinlc at earthlink.net ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com
       Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:25 AM
       Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

       Rolf-
       You're excusing a ton of faults, blaming the suppliers?!? The OEM is 
    responsible for ensuring that the quality of the components that suppliers
    sell them are up to par, otherwise it reflects poorly on the OEM. Who do you
    think people blame when there is a problem with their cars? Do they blame 
    Valeo, saying "man, Valeo makes crappy electrical components." No. They
    blame Audi.

       The turbos on the 2.7T go rather regularly- it's not the extended oil
    change intervals that kill them- it's the design of the engine. That same 
    little K03 turbo lives much longer in the 1.8T engine. Putting the turbos
    where they're located in the 2.7T engine compartment is what shortens their
    life- not enough cooling, IMO.

       What about the other stuff: 

       instrument cluster issues- VW A2, A3, A4; Audi type 44, C4, C5, B5, B6, D2
       control arm issues- B5, B6, C5
       transmission issues- D2
       oil leak issues- D2
       ignition coils and ignition components- C4, B5 
       diff seals- ongoing since type 44
       turbo failure- B5, B6, C5
       MMI issues- D3
       miscellaneous electrical problems- ongoing since type 44 days or earlier,
    hasn't gotten better

       Time bomb on the Subaru? No more so than the C5 2.7T- you chip the 2.7T,
    it's just a matter of when, rather than if, the turbos fail. RS4 turbos fail
    much less frequently- larger oil passages, much thicker impeller shaft.
    Coming from a auto mechanic, I'm pretty shocked that you're willing to state 
    that the Audis are so much better than other cars out there.

       I happen to like Audis, that's why I've owned them- no way would I put up
    with that stuff if I didn't. But your statements are just outrageous. Lexus 
    simply doesn't have these issues, as a shining example of a very complex car
    with tons of "stuff" in it that doesn't break very often. They also don't
    blame their suppliers for problems.

       Taka 
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