[s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

Steve Marinello smarinello at entouch.net
Tue Sep 6 22:33:14 EDT 2005


At least you got a Jetta.  At Advantage Audi in Houston, they gave me a 
Corolla....

I told them that they should talk to the Sales Department before they loaned 
me another Corolla.

\
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R. Mair" <waves at comcast.net>
To: "LL - NY" <larrycleung at gmail.com>
Cc: <S-CAR-List at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's


> Hey, i was NEVER offered a loaner car when the Allroad went in for routine 
> service and the occ. wierd stuff. Just last year i DEMANDED a loaner every 
> time, because after all the courtesy call lady asked if it was ever 
> offered, so i assumed i was entitled. It's funny how much quicker your car 
> gets done at the dealer when you are driving around one of their new 
> jettas  ;-)
>
> Rolf
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: LL - NY
>  To: R. Mair
>  Cc: Pasqualoni, James E ; Taka Mizutani ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 9:28 PM
>  Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's
>
>
>  Yeah, I wonder if Audi would do that:
>
>  Be compassionate - Bwaahahahahaah
>  Fix it quickly - U vant it ven?
>  Offered a Loaner car? - Vat, ve haf Loaner Karrs? Bwahahahaha
>
>  As for durabilty, in WRC, haven't been too many Subie engine failures. 
> Running into things, well that's another story.
>
>  Again, not saying I don't like (old) Audi. One of the reasons I jumped on 
> my S6 was that
>  I couldn't picture myself doing a modded A4 1.8T or S4TT (although the 
> avant would've been QUITE helpful) due to the comparatively lesser build 
> quality (not by much, but it's there). Yes, the Audi's are more tanklike 
> than Subies (most noticable in the interior materials and paint finish) 
> but they've lost a little of that something that made them special when 
> even they, Ja!, had to build to a price in order to stay competitive. In 
> the meantime, lets accept the cars for what they are, expensive AWD cars 
> with potential and class, lesser priced cars with potential and decent 
> build.
>
>  LL - NY
>
>
>
>  On 9/6/05, R. Mair <waves at comcast.net> wrote:
>    Happened once to my friends 2003, somewhere around 30k miles I believe. 
> The dealer was however very compassionate about the problem, fixed it up 
> pretty quick and offered a loaner car.
>
>    Rolf
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Pasqualoni, James E
>    To: 'R. Mair' ; Taka Mizutani
>    Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:12 PM
>    Subject: RE: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's
>
>
>    My friend's 98 Outback 2.5l has had the heads rebuilt twice due to head
>    gasket failure.  Twice.  With only 75k on the odo.  So how do the 2.0 
> (WRX)
>    and 2.5 (Sti) turbo motors differ from the NA ones?  Lower compression,
>    etc???
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>    [mailto: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of R. Mair
>    Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:59 PM
>    To: Taka Mizutani
>    Cc: S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>    Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's
>
>    OK, i guess i need to make this clear enough to understand. First, I've
>    spent weeks at Bosch headquarters, and countless hours in schools 
> across the
>    country learning and dealing with engine management systems for VW and 
> Audi
>    cars. I believe I can speak  intelligently on this subject.
>    Audi has had Bosch supply most electrical parts for decades. This 
> includes
>    alternators, starters, volt regs. etc, as well as the bulk of the 
> engine
>    management systems. Oh... and filters etc... Bosch in general has built 
> some
>    amazing systems. The old CIS units of the  late 80's, early 90's were 
> so
>    outdated, yet passed California's strict emissions test. Bosch and 
> Germans
>    cars were one and the same it seemed. Bosch clearly has had some 
> quality
>    control issues here of late. As a car manufacturer, what do you do? do 
> you
>    suddenly ditch a major supplier in search of another one that has never
>    worked with your cars? It would take YEARS for another company to pick 
> up
>    where Bosch left off. Would that be the best way to go or do you assume
>    Bosch will fix the problems sooner than later? Valeo had problems with
>    heater cores in mid-80's VW's. A recall was offered. In general, their
>    quality is somewhat better today.
>
>    so what you are saying Taka is that Audi should look into a crystal 
> ball and
>    see that in 50k miles, they are going to have MAF failures, or perhaps
>    coolant sensor failures, or even notice that ICU's were going to fail 
> at
>    some point? None of these particular parts are placed wrong in the 
> engine
>    compt! I'm not thrilled with Audi overall myself, I think i've made 
> that
>    clear in previous posts. but you are not correct in some of your
>    assumptions. Turbo placement is not the major factor for the failings 
> in
>    Audi's. The initial rec. by Audi to extend oil changes and use 
> conventional
>    motor oil was not a smart move. Yes, Dumb Dumb Audi! Given  synth oil 
> and 5k
>    miles, you won't see a tenth of the failures. In my garage, i've seen 
> allot
>    more 1.8t failures than 2.7, as 2.7's came from the factory with synth 
> oil
>    installed. but they still suggested 10k oil changes. Still not good.
>
>    You don't know 2.7's very well Taka. For the most part, they are pretty 
> darn
>    tough, as far as the internals go. There was a 01 S4 speedvision cup 
> car at
>    the Duryea hillclimb a few weeks ago, actually took fourth fastest 
> overall.
>    It had stand alone engine management, K04 turbos and about 2500 race 
> miles
>    on the stock, un touched bottom end. I'll bet it won't be rebuilt for 
> some
>    time after that. What i was ref. to a time bomb being, is what mods do 
> to a
>    stock engine. I'll take ANY audi turbo thats huffed to the hilt on a 
> stock
>    engine before i'd do the same on a Japanese engine.
>
>
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Taka Mizutani
>       To: R. Mair
>       Cc: calvinlc at earthlink.net ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>       Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:25 AM
>       Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's
>
>
>       Rolf-
>       You're excusing a ton of faults, blaming the suppliers?!? The OEM is
>    responsible for ensuring that the quality of the components that 
> suppliers
>    sell them are up to par, otherwise it reflects poorly on the OEM. Who 
> do you
>    think people blame when there is a problem with their cars? Do they 
> blame
>    Valeo, saying "man, Valeo makes crappy electrical components." No. They
>    blame Audi.
>
>       The turbos on the 2.7T go rather regularly- it's not the extended 
> oil
>    change intervals that kill them- it's the design of the engine. That 
> same
>    little K03 turbo lives much longer in the 1.8T engine. Putting the 
> turbos
>    where they're located in the 2.7T engine compartment is what shortens 
> their
>    life- not enough cooling, IMO.
>
>       What about the other stuff:
>
>       instrument cluster issues- VW A2, A3, A4; Audi type 44, C4, C5, B5, 
> B6, D2
>       control arm issues- B5, B6, C5
>       transmission issues- D2
>       oil leak issues- D2
>       ignition coils and ignition components- C4, B5
>       diff seals- ongoing since type 44
>       turbo failure- B5, B6, C5
>       MMI issues- D3
>       miscellaneous electrical problems- ongoing since type 44 days or 
> earlier,
>    hasn't gotten better
>
>       Time bomb on the Subaru? No more so than the C5 2.7T- you chip the 
> 2.7T,
>    it's just a matter of when, rather than if, the turbos fail. RS4 turbos 
> fail
>    much less frequently- larger oil passages, much thicker impeller shaft.
>    Coming from a auto mechanic, I'm pretty shocked that you're willing to 
> state
>    that the Audis are so much better than other cars out there.
>
>       I happen to like Audis, that's why I've owned them- no way would I 
> put up
>    with that stuff if I didn't. But your statements are just outrageous. 
> Lexus
>    simply doesn't have these issues, as a shining example of a very 
> complex car
>    with tons of "stuff" in it that doesn't break very often. They also 
> don't
>    blame their suppliers for problems.
>
>       Taka
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