[urq] More of the car that wouldn't start

[Thatcher Hubbard]

Well, I haven't even got the engine totally finished yet and my next
batch of parts has arrived from Canada:

 2 new ball joints (front)
 2 new tie rods (front)
 4 new subframe bushings (front)

I'll be obtaining new strut tower bushings and control arm bushings
before I take anything apart.  I guess if I'm going to do this work,
replacing a couple of CV boots will be an easy part of it.

I saw a link to a guy in Portland who makes poly bushings for the
control arms.  His site claims that they don't squeak and that they
feel better than the OEM ones.  I'm willing to give him a shot, but
I've heard here a few times that poly bushings suck.  Should I give
them a try or stick with the OEM ones?


On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:49:28 -0700, Brandon Rogers <brogers at terrix.com> wrote:
> you'd think that wouldn't you - but it works.
> 
> I guess you could plug the muffler as somebody mentioned - but I've never
> done that.
> 
> Set your compressor regulator to like 12 psi and let it pressurize the
> intake- yes some air goes out the valves - but you can't hear it really.
> You _can_ hear air hissing or whistlng out of a slit hose, loose connection
> etc, much clearer.  And I use a stethoscope with a hose (basic 2.5mm braided
> stuff) on the end (FLAPS cheapy special) - then you _really_ know when you
> isolated the leak- it's loud with a steth.
> 
> Best diagnostic tool there is on a WX, period, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> hth-
> 
> Brandon
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Bennett" <ur.quattro at verizon.net>
> To: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>; "Thatcher Hubbard"
> <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> 
> > use a smoke machine to find intake and boost leaks, any other method is
> seat
> > of the pants, hip shooting. just using air noise, what a joke, the intake
> > valves are open, so are the exhaust,,, air noise!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > To: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> >
> >
> > > hopefully somebody will chime in *hint* hint* who has made the little
> plug
> > > from pvc pipe.  you drill it and install a air fitting so you can hook
> it
> > up
> > > to a compressor- keep pressur elow- like 10 psi or so.  Some people
> > > recommend disconnecting the line the ECU as precaution...I don't have
> one
> > of
> > > these anymore as it won't fit the intake hose for a 3B...
> > >
> > > so somebody else chime in please
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Patrick Carlier" <p.carlier at pandora.be>
> > > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> > >
> > >
> > > > Per Brandon's suggestion, I'm going to try to figure out how to
> > > > pressurize the IM with the equipment I have, or can borrow.  With the
> > > > exception of a couple of hoses I've already replaced, all the other
> > > > hoses are the same that left Ingolstadt in May of 82, so they'll be
> > > > replaced one way or another.
> > > >
> > > > I had put replacing the Michelin Man hose down as a preventetive
> > > > maintenance item on my list, after I'd gotten the car running again.
> > > > I'm interested in the Aircraft Spruce solution that Bill offered up,
> > > > so if I wrap it in tape and it "fixes" the problem, I'll do that
> > > > immediately.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick, yes, I replaced every seal that you come even near when I
> > > > took the head off it.  I put new injector inserts into the head, and
> > > > replaced the original black injector o-rings with the green ones.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:40:48 +0100, Patrick Carlier
> > <p.carlier at pandora.be>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Another way to test leaky intake parts is to have the engine running
> ,
> > > > > and then spray a flammable liquid on suspicious junctions .
> > > > > Motorstart spray is a good example , or a non lit propane torch .
> > > > > Use with caution offcourse , don't go spraying like an idiot .
> > > > >
> > > > > If you hit or come near the intake leak , rpm will change .
> > > > >
> > > > > You've pulled the head right ?
> > > > > How about the big o-rings that seal the injectors to the head .
> > > > >
> > > > > Pat
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
> > > > > To: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>; "Buchholz,
> > Steven"
> > > > > <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> > > > > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 7:22 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes you can tightly wrap the igloo to turbo hose with duct tape
> for
> > > > > > diagnostic purposes.  It may even last a while but I would get a
> new
> > > hose
> > > > > > asap - whether you choose factory or otherwise.  I know people
> have
> > > > > figured
> > > > > > out how to use modify metal tubes froma  5kt to work...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is why pressurizing the intake is, IMO, the best diagnostic
> > tool
> > > for
> > > > > > the WX motors...Once you know the system is sealed you can focus
> on
> > > > > > components and DC...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Thatcher Hubbard" <thatcher.hubbard at gmail.com>
> > > > > > To: "Buchholz, Steven" <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
> > > > > > Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:51 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [urq] More of the car that wouldn't start
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You know, I hadn't even thought of that, despite the fact that I
> > had
> > > > > > > examined that hose while I had it out of the car and noticed
> that
> > a
> > > > > > > couple of the wire hoops had busted out of their fabric
> covering.
> > > The
> > > > > > > info I'd seen on that hose failing was all "I was driving on the
> > > > > > > highway and suddenly", but I guess if it's a small tear it would
> > be
> > > > > > > just like taking the oil cap off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a troubleshooting technique, can I just wrap the thing in
> duct
> > > > > > > tape?  I know that it would not last, especially not at any kind
> > of
> > > > > > > RPM, but just to see if I can get the car to idle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am also going to check the duty cycle.  The car has not had
> much
> > > > > > > work done to it over the years, but what has been done was not
> > > > > > > necessarily by a great mechanic.  When I removed the head from
> the
> > > car
> > > > > > > and was (carefully) removing the EM bolts and studs, I found a
> > > couple
> > > > > > > of points where someone had started to drill the studs out and
> > then
> > > > > > > thought the better of it.  The engine shop didn't think they'd
> be
> > a
> > > > > > > problem, but it was something of an indicator for me of how well
> > it
> > > > > > > had been maintained.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:28:46 -0800, Buchholz, Steven
> > > > > > > <steven.buchholz at kla-tencor.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > ... one of the things you shouldn't worry at all about is the
> > > ignition
> > > > > > > > timing ... this is set very precisely based on the flywheel
> > teeth
> > > and
> > > > > > > > the reference pin ... I suppose damaged flywheel might screw
> > > timing
> > > > > up,
> > > > > > > > but that would most likely affect high rev operation (IMO).
> Any
> > > > > > > > adjustment of the distributor does not actually change the
> > > ignition
> > > > > > > > timing ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree that it is likely that there is unmetered air getting
> > into
> > > the
> > > > > > > > intake tract ... and IMO one of the prime suspects is the same
> > > intake
> > > > > > > > hose we've been talking about on another thread.  The hose
> from
> > > the
> > > > > top
> > > > > > > > of the airflow sensor (igloo) to the turbo inlet is notorious
> > for
> > > > > > > > leaking, and sometimes the breaks in the hose are not easily
> > > visible.
> > > > > > > > The hose is rather simple to remove and test to see if it is
> > > leaking.
> > > > > > > > Removing the vacuum line at the top of the igloo will cause
> the
> > > > > > > > possibility of unmetered air, but I doubt it would be enough
> to
> > > screw
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > > the idle.  You may want to plug it just to be sure ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One other thing to beware of is the OXS Freq Valve ... do you
> > hear
> > > it
> > > > > > > > buzzing at all while the engine is running?  Do you hear the
> > > buzzing
> > > > > > > > start and stop while the engine is running?  If you have a
> duty
> > > cycle
> > > > > > > > meter, hook it up to the diagnostic plug in the loom near the
> > > firewall
> > > > > > > > on the passenger side and see what you are reading for duty
> > cycle.
> > > If
> > > > > > > > you close the WOT switch at idle the ECU will force the duty
> > cycle
> > > to
> > > > > > > > 50%, which tends to speed the idle up a tad on my car ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Given you are just talking about idle the manifold pressure
> line
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ECU is not likely to be contributing to your problem (IMO),
> but
> > as
> > > > > > > > always ... you can never say for sure for something that is
> not
> > > > > > > > configured properly ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bon chance!
> > > > > > > > Steve B
> > > > > > > > San Jose, CA (USA)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It will start now, as it would yesterday.  I checked the
> > timing
> > > > > (that
> > > > > > > > > is, the position of the cam versus the crank) and I was
> indeed
> > > off a
> > > > > > > > > tooth, although when I restarted the car it ran even more
> > > roughly
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > before.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We've tried adjusting the distributor, the range in which it
> > > will
> > > > > > > > > actually fire the coil is small, and it doesn't seem to
> matter
> > > where
> > > > > > > > > we position it, the car will die if I don't use the throttle
> > to
> > > keep
> > > > > > > > > it at about 1k rpm.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also checked all of my vacuum routing and such (thanks for
> > the
> > > > > ETKA
> > > > > > > > > slides and the routing diagram Louis-Alain).  There were two
> > > things
> > > > > > > > > that I had not connected, the first being the small hose
> that
> > > goes
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the outside/underside of the igloo towards the front, and
> the
> > > ECU.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The ECU hose deserves its own discussion.  The digrams I
> have
> > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > > > indicate that it go on the left-rear port (from the front of
> > the
> > > car
> > > > > > > > > looking back) of that group of four small ports that come
> off
> > > the
> > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > of the IM.  The left rear port is slightly larger than the
> > other
> > > > > three
> > > > > > > > > though, which would indicate to me that a larger hose needs
> to
> > > be
> > > > > > > > > attached to it.  My ECU hose is so brittle that I had to cut
> > it
> > > back
> > > > > > > > > and put one fo those inline hose splices in it.  I was
> > wondering
> > > if
> > > > > > > > > anyone else had noticed this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, the car will start after a crank or two (right away
> pretty
> > > much)
> > > > > > > > > but will not idle at all, will run pretty roughly at 1k rpm
> > and
> > > > > though
> > > > > > > > > the engine will rev when I give it more gas, it's still
> pretty
> > > rough
> > > > > > > > > (not like it used to be).  It seems like a timing issue, but
> > I'm
> > > > > > > > > running out of places to be wrong on that.  I'm pretty sure
> > the
> > > coil
> > > > > > > > > wouldn't even fire if I had the distributor in wrong (wrong
> > > relation
> > > > > > > > > to cam) and like I said above, it doesn't seem to matter
> where
> > > we
> > > > > > > > > position the distributor body versus the dizzy itself, the
> car
> > > still
> > > > > > > > > doesn't run well.
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Audifans urq mailing list
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> > ...
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