[urq] Price of greatness, Fuchs, Ronal R-8's BBS 7.5x15"
packley
packley at verizon.net
Tue Nov 23 00:53:53 EST 2004
Another choice are the light, forged, ET 35 BBS 15x7.5" rims
that were on the 91 Audi 200's. I have a set
of R-8's finished with the outer lip polished which looks
great, but these rims are h e a v y and best for show, not go.
So limited in 15" tire choices.
Phil
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Into the CIS abyss (Buchholz, Steven)
2. Re: The price of greatness (Andrew B)
3. RE: The price of greatness (Michael Hopton)
4. Re: The price of greatness (Ingo Rautenberg)
5. Re: Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster (Mike Del Tergo)
6. Re: Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster (Brandon Rogers)
7. Re: Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster (Mike Del Tergo)
8. Fuchs (Was The price of greatness) (Brandon Rogers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:16:03 -0800
From: "Buchholz, Steven" <Steven.Buchholz at kla-tencor.com>
Subject: RE: [urq] Into the CIS abyss
To: <urq at audifans.com>
Message-ID:
<BD316B4584174147B080289F69FC76168CCBF7 at CA1EXCLV03.adcorp.kla-tencor.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
... no big deal on my part, but I thought I'd point out that the person
who made the comments on the CIS that you quoted was me, not Martin ...
wouldn't want anyone accusing Martin of saying something he didn't say!
;-)
I still believe that you should be able to do the same thing as tweaking
the regulating valves to each injector equally by adjusting the control
pressure ... the only thing the metering head knows about WOT is the
position of the metering rod, which is based on the amount of air
flowing into the engine. I suppose one thing that could happen is that
the rod could top out and saturate ... if that was indeed happening then
the solution you propose would be a possible work around. Lower control
pressure means that the metering rod will move more for a given amount
of airflow, so it might be more likely to cause the rod to run to the
end of travel. Has anyone confirmed whether or not this happens, say on
a car that is running higher than stock boost?
My concern is that the CIS system is based on regulated pressures, and
it is my understanding that the adjustments on the metering head that
you are adjusting are intended to set the pressure to match the pressure
that the injectors open at. The other variable is the OXS Freq Valve
contribution ... this may be varied based on WOT as the ECU is in
control of the duty cycle ...
I've wanted to instrument the engine up a bit more to test some of this
stuff myself ... my plan is to actually install gauges for the control
pressure and duty cycle so that I can see them from the cockpit while
the engine is running. I've even thought about installing EGT sensors
for each cylinder in the exhaust manifold.
As they say, nothing succeeds like success ... and it sounds as though
your test worked for you ... that's cool! It will be interesting to
hear what you find in terms of idle and partial load performance ...
Steve B
San Jose, CA (USA)
>
> Well received and done. I had read before but a review was in order.
> I do disagree that the same result would come from reducing
> the control pressure. I know and agree that such will richen
> the mixture. I have played with that over the years and it
> never yielded any WOT positive improvement.
> I have felt (thought) that "richening the mixture" via
> control pressure concerned idle and partial throttle- not
> WOT. I believe (and could be full of crap) that WOT calls for
> max system flow at factory setting which is limited to a
> preset max flow spec. I ventured down this path hoping to
> flow more fuel at WOT, while still utilizing all the system
> controls at idle and partial throttle. It appears to have
> done just that, although I will need to verify with a fuel
> mixture gauge in the future (like when I can again become
> gainfully employed).
> After reviewing the CIS documents, and totally dissassembling
> a spare FD to examine its innards, my instinct tells me that
> turning the screws out (counterclockwise) should lean the
> mixture, as it reduces the spring pressure on the diaphragm
> in the FD. This is confusing, but imperical evidence is
> conclusive that WOT is noticeably improved! A quick plug
> read, shows good cylinder mixture conditions, and the FV is
> still hanging around 40-45 as before.
> I would caution anyone else to not mess with this setting
> unless you have a spare stock FD to return to. I am out on a
> unverified, unscientific limb of experimentation, and at 5k'
> elevation. Your experiance may seriously vary!
> Any feedback appreciated.
> For the past few days I just can't wait to drive the car.
> Transformed from "fun" to "great fun"!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:22:54 -0500
From: Andrew B <andrew.sb at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [urq] The price of greatness
To: "dgraber460 at aol.com" <dgraber460 at aol.com>
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Message-ID: <d452ee6104112211224dd568c8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Not saying Fuchs are not worth what people are paying for them, just
curious as to whether they have some collectable value or what,
exactly. I personally am not a big fan of the style, but I wouldn't
mind having a set, nevertheless. Heck, if they can increase the value
of my car I'll take two.
In response to John, I paid about 7k, and I believe that is exactly
what my car is worth. I don't think I could get a similar performance
car for the same price with all the bells and whistles of the Ur. My
car has no rust, and everything short of the AC (no belt), cruise
control (does anybody's work?) and rear defroster (Working on it)
everything works and is in great shape. My car has the Ronal 8"s and
was repainted in a not-quite-zermatt silver. I love the car, but I
can't see it being worth 11 thousand. I guess the rarity is important
in resale value, but there are quite a few Urs available to anybody
savvy enough to surf the interweb for a few hours. I was looking all
over the country for mine, and I was lucky when it popped up in a city
a few hours away. I guess I'm asking if people actually get what they
ask (above 10g) or if they're just testing the water.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:47:52 EST, dgraber460 at aol.com
<dgraber460 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/22/2004 10:36:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> John.Chaplen at mercer.com writes:
> <Also, what's the deal with Fuchs wheels? I know 8" Ronals have some
> <desireability, but are these as collectable? I saw a set on ebay go
for
> <$75, guess I should have picked them up!
>
> Is your point that Fuchs are too high or too low?
> I've been looking for a set for some time, and haven't seen anything
for
> what I think their worth. I was preparing to bid on the $75 set when
they
> were mysteriously pulled early and sold for $75. I was a bit annoyed
(more
> like pissed!) at not having a shot at them, but that's auction life I
guess.
> Still looking for a set, and so far resisting the temptation to get
the
> brand new 15x7 TSW Hockenhiem Rs for $349 including shipping from
Cheap
> Wheels.
>
> Dennis
> Denver
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:27:32 -0500
From: "Michael Hopton" <Michael at siliconoptix.com>
Subject: RE: [urq] The price of greatness
To: <DGraber460 at aol.com>, <andrew.sb at gmail.com>, <urq at audifans.com>
Message-ID:
<E422450F35E7E14CA950F0C66AF51BBBD2DA73 at svc-svr2.silicon-video.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The availabilty of Fuchs in the US is one of the "few" better things
about
owning an ur-q in North America. Fuchs seem to be scarcer than hen's
teeth in Europe and the UK and often go for the same price as 8"
ronals...
regards, Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: urq-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:urq-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of DGraber460 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 1:48 PM
To: andrew.sb at gmail.com; urq at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [urq] The price of greatness
In a message dated 11/22/2004 10:36:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
John.Chaplen at mercer.com writes:
<Also, what's the deal with Fuchs wheels? I know 8" Ronals have some
<desireability, but are these as collectable? I saw a set on ebay go
for
<$75, guess I should have picked them up!
Is your point that Fuchs are too high or too low?
I've been looking for a set for some time, and haven't seen anything for
what I think their worth. I was preparing to bid on the $75 set when
they were
mysteriously pulled early and sold for $75. I was a bit annoyed (more
like
pissed!) at not having a shot at them, but that's auction life I guess.
Still looking for a set, and so far resisting the temptation to get the
brand new 15x7 TSW Hockenhiem Rs for $349 including shipping from Cheap
Wheels.
Dennis
Denver
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:41:09 -0500
From: "Ingo Rautenberg" <i.rautenberg at waratap.com>
Subject: Re: [urq] The price of greatness
To: <DGraber460 at aol.com>, <andrew.sb at gmail.com>, <urq at audifans.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c4d0cb$37a18fd0$52bab1d0 at ingo>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Missed those! My guess is someone offered a far more realistic price
for
them (like a "Buy it now" kind of price) and the seller said OK. I
bought a
nice set last summer for ~$400 plus shipping with no regrets. They are
extremely strong and lightweight and were used by AudiSport for their
off-road rallies. As to the "worth" of Urq's -- it only makes sense as
the
pool of available cars is diminishing, Audi's stature in the US is going
up
and these cars are 20+ years old. I wouldn't sell mine for even 10k --
and
it's not even worth that much $$ (unless I had a spare).
Ingo
----- Original Message -----
From: <DGraber460 at aol.com>
To: <andrew.sb at gmail.com>; <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [urq] The price of greatness
>
>
> In a message dated 11/22/2004 10:36:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> John.Chaplen at mercer.com writes:
>
> <Also, what's the deal with Fuchs wheels? I know 8" Ronals have some
> <desireability, but are these as collectable? I saw a set on ebay go
for
> <$75, guess I should have picked them up!
>
>
> Is your point that Fuchs are too high or too low?
> I've been looking for a set for some time, and haven't seen anything
for
> what I think their worth. I was preparing to bid on the $75 set when
they
were
> mysteriously pulled early and sold for $75. I was a bit annoyed (more
like
> pissed!) at not having a shot at them, but that's auction life I
guess.
> Still looking for a set, and so far resisting the temptation to get
the
> brand new 15x7 TSW Hockenhiem Rs for $349 including shipping from
Cheap
Wheels.
>
>
> Dennis
> Denver
>
> _______________________________________________
> Audifans urq mailing list
> Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> Manage your list connection:
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> Have an urq question? Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
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> Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
contributions welcome!
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:53:39 +0000
From: "Mike Del Tergo" <mdeltergo at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
To: Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Message-ID: <BAY102-F55DD67A77F8C1CDD765E5A4C60 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
From: Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com
Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
>I went to Radio Shack and bought some 12V red leds plus some sockets.
Your
>idea was nice and I too want to have red lighting in the early-Coupe
gauges
>I want to install.
For ~ 1/2 that buy some VDO bulb condoms, red of course, just in time
for
the holidays.!
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:23:33 -0700
From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
To: "Mike Del Tergo" <mdeltergo at hotmail.com>,
<Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com>
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Message-ID: <003101c4d0d1$26358340$0b01a8c0 at terrixden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Where is the best palce to get these - and do they come in different
sizes.
The problem I've come across is that, for instance, I wanted to use a
Oil
Pressire gauge from a '91 CQ and it appeared to have white lighting (and
of
course I want red) and that gauge's bulb was a different size than the
aftermarket VDO stuff I 've purchased - which came with those red and
green
"condoms"...
Brandon
'84 ur
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Del Tergo" <mdeltergo at hotmail.com>
To: <Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com>
Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
> From: Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com
> Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
>
> >I went to Radio Shack and bought some 12V red leds plus some sockets.
Your
> >idea was nice and I too want to have red lighting in the early-Coupe
gauges
> >I want to install.
>
> For ~ 1/2 that buy some VDO bulb condoms, red of course, just in time
for
> the holidays.!
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Audifans urq mailing list
> Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> Manage your list connection:
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> Have an urq question? Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/UrQuattro
> Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
contributions welcome!
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:27:03 +0000
From: "Mike Del Tergo" <mdeltergo at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [urq] Bulbs for Illuminating the Instrument Cluster
To: brogers at terrix.com, Louis-Alain_Richard at computerhorizons.com
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Message-ID: <BAY102-F35CB01794A7FEC729802EDA4C60 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Brandon,
I bought a multi pack with different sizes. I think you can buy a
package
with all the same size as well. I think I got mine @ summit racing.
Definately a VDO package, though.
Mike
>Where is the best palce to get these - and do they come in different
sizes.
>The problem I've come across is that, for instance, I wanted to use a
Oil
>Pressire gauge from a '91 CQ and it appeared to have white lighting
(and of
>course I want red) and that gauge's bulb was a different size than the
>aftermarket VDO stuff I 've purchased - which came with those red and
green
>"condoms"...
>
>Brandon
>'84 ur
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:41:18 -0700
From: "Brandon Rogers" <brogers at terrix.com>
Subject: [urq] Fuchs (Was The price of greatness)
To: "Andrew B" <andrew.sb at gmail.com>
Cc: urq at audifans.com
Message-ID: <003901c4d0d3$9ed73f80$0b01a8c0 at terrixden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
IMO, they are not as coveted as the 8" Ronals (although the Fuchs are
much
lighter) but are much more coveted than the 6" Ronals. All things being
equal - which we all know they _never_ are (especially with these cars)-
a
car with Fuchs would likely fetch more than one with 6" Ronals. Again -
all
other things being equal. The Fuchs are light and strong and have
appeal,
as someone (Ingo I think) said because Audi used them on the rally cars.
One drawback is that they won't allow as big a brake caliper as the 8"
Ronals. I had to have the wheel weights put on the outer lip (rather
than
inside of the wheel towards the out side) because they were hitting my
G60
calipers in front. Some people have Porsche Monoblock calipers under 8"
R8's and there is no way I can see those fitting under Fuchs...well
maybe
with a spacer or something...??
Brandon
'84 ur
8" R8 Summer
Fuchs Winter
6" R8 not used
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew B" <andrew.sb at gmail.com>
To: <dgraber460 at aol.com>
Cc: <urq at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [urq] The price of greatness
> Not saying Fuchs are not worth what people are paying for them, just
> curious as to whether they have some collectable value or what,
> exactly. I personally am not a big fan of the style, but I wouldn't
> mind having a set, nevertheless. Heck, if they can increase the value
> of my car I'll take two.
>
> In response to John, I paid about 7k, and I believe that is exactly
> what my car is worth. I don't think I could get a similar performance
> car for the same price with all the bells and whistles of the Ur. My
> car has no rust, and everything short of the AC (no belt), cruise
> control (does anybody's work?) and rear defroster (Working on it)
> everything works and is in great shape. My car has the Ronal 8"s and
> was repainted in a not-quite-zermatt silver. I love the car, but I
> can't see it being worth 11 thousand. I guess the rarity is important
> in resale value, but there are quite a few Urs available to anybody
> savvy enough to surf the interweb for a few hours. I was looking all
> over the country for mine, and I was lucky when it popped up in a city
> a few hours away. I guess I'm asking if people actually get what they
> ask (above 10g) or if they're just testing the water.
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:47:52 EST, dgraber460 at aol.com
<dgraber460 at aol.com>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/22/2004 10:36:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> > John.Chaplen at mercer.com writes:
> > <Also, what's the deal with Fuchs wheels? I know 8" Ronals have
some
> > <desireability, but are these as collectable? I saw a set on ebay
go
for
> > <$75, guess I should have picked them up!
> >
> > Is your point that Fuchs are too high or too low?
> > I've been looking for a set for some time, and haven't seen anything
for
> > what I think their worth. I was preparing to bid on the $75 set when
they
> > were mysteriously pulled early and sold for $75. I was a bit annoyed
(more
> > like pissed!) at not having a shot at them, but that's auction life
I
guess.
> > Still looking for a set, and so far resisting the temptation to get
the
> > brand new 15x7 TSW Hockenhiem Rs for $349 including shipping from
Cheap
> > Wheels.
> >
> > Dennis
> > Denver
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Audifans urq mailing list
> Send posts to: mailto:urq at audifans.com
> Manage your list connection:
http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/urq
> Have an urq question? Check the Audifans Knowledgebase!
> http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Audi/UrQuattro
> Have an urq answer? ... Please help others by adding to the KB ... all
contributions welcome!
------------------------------
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