Re: 84 5kS timing belt

[Eddi Jew <jew@rysa.dtc.hp.com>]

 > The timing belt in my (her, whatever) 84 needs to be replaced.  The 
 > manuals are kinda vague on this. 

I found the Bently manual fairly through on this- if you got the tools
they tell you to use.

 >  I've been told that to get to it you have to pull off the front 
 > bumper and the grill, which is no big deal.

This is based on my experience with my '86 5000S. I also tend to get 
details confused/crossed between the Audi and the '86 VW GTI.

It's easy to remove the center part of the grill and it'll pay off with
easier access, but I didn't have to remove the bumper. It may depend on
what tool you have to remove that huge bolt on the crank pulley.

 > I've also been told that if you are replacing a belt 
 > that has not slipped or broken, you don't have to futz with the 
 > timing marks, just pull the old belt off and install a new one.  Is
 > this true?  Can I just pull off the old belt and slip a new one on 
 > (assuming the belt doesn't snap on the way home today)?  I'm really 
 > not looking forward to screwing up the timing on that thing!  

It's easy to be off by one tooth. 

Before removal of the belt and after removing the upper cam pulley 
cover, check the position of the mark at the crank pulley (TDC) and 
the mark on the cam pulley (a "dot" on the side facing the engine), 
which should be level with the top surface of the head. 

After installing the belt and tesioning it with the water pump, rotate
the crank all the way around, back to the timing marks. You'll now know 
if you're off a tooth. When installing the belt, if you try to keep the
belt from having no slack on the side opposite the water pump, you got
a better chance of being correct the first time. Proper tensioning is
checked by being able to twist the belt 90 degrees with thumb and 
forefinger, at the location of longest span (forgot the location
of the idler bearing).

 > Anything 
 > else I should do while I'm in there, other than replace the water 
 > pump and valve cover gasket?  TIA.

Don't think I had to remove my Audi's valve cover to do this. I remember
replacing the stationary, press-fit, idler bearing. Might need a little
penetrating oil before pulling it off, but installation is easy- it's not
designed to be pressed on that tight. 

I didn't replace the pump or its O-ring, but I may have been lucky. Moved
it twice, the other time when I replaced the lifters. Get the O-ring, 
just in case. Anyone know how long the water pump lasts?

Replace accessory belts. If good condition, leave in trunk as spares.

Was there mention on this list of doing the crank front oil seal? It 
sounded simple enough, but I didn't know about it then, so no experience 
here.

Some observations I had:

   Be careful not to pinch the belt around the crank pulley when 
   replacing the pulley. Once the belt gets kinked/folded sharply, 
   it's bad.

   That crank bolt is on *tight* and has to be torqued back on the same.
   Gotta hold that crank still to save your knuckles. Suggest getting 
   the crank holder tool (AST 2084)- and maybe the AST 2079
   wrench adapter, which helps position the breaker bar up and back, away
   from the front frame. You'll have to figure out the (lower) torque 
   readout to use with this tool.

   I had no leads on sources for these tools when I did this, so I use
   a drill bit and inserted it into the opening at the bell housing, into
   one of the deeper holes that were drilled into the side of the flywheel
   (to balance it). This jammed the crank enough, though I was wondering
   if I might crack the bell housing or bit if I got too rough. 

   Don't know where your're located, but here's some leads on these
   tools:

 >> I just talked to my 
 >>brother-in-law, who works for a automotive tool company in Santa Clara, CA.  
 >>He can sell tools at the list price and ship them anyhwere, but for people 
 >>who live nearby he can work a cash discount.  I had him quote the following 
 >>tools:
 >>AST 2079 - Harmonic Balancer wrench List  $92.12, discounted to  ~$65
 >>AST 2084 - Crank holder used w/2079 List  $91.23, discounted to  ~$64
 >>Steve Buchholz
 >>s_buchho@kla.com
 >>(408) 456-6244 (work) 

 >> If you are in the Washington DC area I can loan you the tools 
 >> (there are two "special" tools to do the job) to change it.  I 
 >> think the tools are roughly $100-$120 for one and $75-$85 for the 
 >> other at your local dealer.  By the way, if anyone in the DC area 
 >> would like to borrow them, I'd be happy to loan them out.  You 
 >> can email or call me.
 >>    Paul Souza
 >>    souza.paul@epamail.epa.gov
 >>    (301)926-1405

Don't know if all this applies to the (er, your) TQ.

-- Eddi

 > -Mike
 > 87 5000CS TQ