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From: owner-quattro-digest [SMTP:quattro@coimbra.ans.net]
To: quattro-digest [SMTP:quattro-digest@coimbra.ans.net]
Date: 1996-11-12 11:28
Subject: quattro-digest V3 #1361
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quattro-digest Tuesday, 12 November 1996 Volume 03 : Number 1361
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Driving in snow... skid control
Re: A4 1.8T questions
Gatherings & geography
Re: Stinkin' Liar (was:USA Meet Geography Check)
VIN decoder
Re: A4 1.8T questions
Re: UrQ Overboost. -Reply
Re: ghost in my A4q's climate control
A4 30v performance - what to expect?
Re: a4 auto climate control
Repost: Driving in snow... skid control
Re: A4 1.8T questions
Re: Mo'Synth
Re: Audi RS2
Re: A4 1.8T questions
Re: a4 auto climate control
ur-q handling - BIG improvement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tkomljan@mobility.com (Komljanec, Tony)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:37:06 -0500
Subject: Driving in snow... skid control
>So. Anyone have opinions on the relative merits of snow
>tires on a quattro? (I'm in northern NJ, and am considering
>something like Blizzaks or Guardex).
That's why I bought the quattro.... winter... and no lumbering sport-ute
with balloon tires, but a very nice car with traction galore to boot.
I put the Continental 750 + steel rims on my car (only because I got a
package deal). Would have preferred the Blizzaks cause people hear swear by
them... just take them off before the weather gets warm or they will wear
out FAST.
Noticable difference with the snows....much better traction than the all
seasons. Snow of 1 ft isn't even a concern. You can turn and do whatever.
1.5 feet is touch and go since the plastic belly under the engine packs the
snow efficiently.... 2 ft got me stuck (the snow plowed me in at the end of
the driveway), cause it raised the wheels sufficiently.... but locking the
rear differential and only a push from two other people got me out. I then
proceeded to pull out two other cars (a GM wagon and a Honda.... ha, ha, ha,
the Honda cars are light and have little ground clearance!) through the path
I just cleared. Snow drifts? Just hit them... I've lost one plastic wheel
cover.... and make sure it's not high enough to do in the plastic grille.
Also love that rear fog light for those blinding, drifting conditions...
BTW, to each their own... for the above mentioned reasons, I bought the '93
100CSQ instead of the S4, cause the 100 has an extra inch of ground
clearance! I have four on the ground and I'm not afraid to use it!
FOR DISCUSSION: First snow, I hit those large empty parking lots to
practice skid control. Unlike FWD, the quattro loves to skid sideways....
that's a lamp post special! I found that the best way to get control back
is to actually give her a bit of gas.... lightly, and slowly, she comes
back, all the while, one is focusing at a stationary point in the horizon
and spinning the steering wheel frantically towards it. Remember, that a
skid in one direction, once corrected, will result in over correction and a
skid in the other direction....
Does anyone have other suggestions and proven methods to control quattro in
a spin/skid?
Tony K
Toronto, ON - this is banana belt. The snow hits Buffalo to the south and
Barrie to the north.... it'll rain in Toronto.... darn!
------------------------------
From: Glenn Lawton <lawtonglenn@gsmai.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:38:28 -0600
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T questions
David Robbins wrote:
> Massacusetts emissions are identical to California
> (I think NY uses the same).
If that's the case, why three different SKUs?
0LM California Emissions nc nc
1QE Massachusetts Emissions nc nc
NYE New York Emissions nc nc
Any manufacturer knows that you need to use common parts
and reduce the number of SKUs to reduce inventory
and confusion.
Glenn
------------------------------
From: ekellock@juno.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:37:49 EST
Subject: Gatherings & geography
My apologies to all geographically-challenged mid-westerners, but St.
Louis is not the center of the universe... or the United States.
Using the following four "corners": Seattle, San Diego, Boston, and
Tampa, I have found that the most "equidistant" city of any substance
would be Lincoln, Nebraska. The mileage from each of the four "corners"
is:
Seattle - 1659, San Diego - 1555, Boston - 1521, and Tampa - 1452.
(I used Tampa and Boston as kind of an "average" of those two corners of
the country, flame away!)
I realize much of the discussion of such an event has already focused on
finding a track to run on. Just throwing out this info for
clarification.
I quite often have to remind certain midwesterners of the Minnesota
persuasion that nearly a full THIRD of the US lies beyond their
definition of "out west" (Rapid City, SD).
As for equidistance and having realistic expectations, Omaha might be a
better choice than Lincoln. All of this is moot from my perspective
since all the locales discussed so far are within an easy half-day drive
of my current residence. I really hope this idea materializes into an
acutal event. I think it sounds great. I haven't yet been to St. Louis
and I can't think of a better reason to go there. Just wanted to provide
a reality check.
Ed Kellock QCUSA Member #2882
Lansing, IA (Originally from Southern CA)
91 200qw - Indigo blue, titanium leather
87 gt coupe - Alpine white, white leather, TSW Evo's
------------------------------
From: Glenn Lawton <lawtonglenn@gsmai.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:47:43 -0600
Subject: Re: Stinkin' Liar (was:USA Meet Geography Check)
Paul_Royal@isserv9.idx.com wrote:
> ...Glenn Lawton will tell you I'm a stinkin' liar...
> ...I haven't had a ticket in over 9 years....
> ...I've been stopped at least 1.7 million times...
Well, if you're not lying now, reality will soon
bite you, and your words will become lies.
> Digressionfrom David Letterman last night:
"...in a traditional Veteran's Day ceremony, President Clinton
laid a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier this morning.
The wreath sued him for sexual harrasment this afternoon..."
> End of Digression
There ain't enough wood around for you to knock now, son,
you've taunted the ticket gods, and you're time is up.
Maybe if you touch Woody, the Internet Pecker?
Glenn Lawton
------------------------------
From: Steve Evans <sevans@radstone.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:44:39 +0000
Subject: VIN decoder
Phil,
>Mine is WAUZZZ85ZJA900637, engine MB001421.
>
>(In case anyone feels like buying me a Christmas present. Have to be sure
it
> will fit! Need a fuel metering head ...)
>
As mine is WAUZZZ85ZJA900615, engine MB001400, I must say I'm a little
concerned at yet another bit failing on your car. As you know, my turbo
let loose with the same failure as yours at about the same mileage, but
as yet your radiator/crankshaft oil seal/metering head woes appear to
have passed me by (touch wood)!
What are the symptoms of the metering head troubles? How many miles are you
up to now - my car is about to hit 130K.
Regards,
Steve
__
Steve Evans Radstone Technology Plc.
Principal Design Engineer Water Lane,
Towcester,
Tel: +44 (0) 1327 359444 Northants,
Fax: +44 (0) 1327 358113 NN12 6JN
Email: sevans@radstone.co.uk ENGLAND
------------------------------
From: drobbins@net2net.com (David Robbins)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:50:49 -0500
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T questions
At 11:38 AM 11/12/96 -0500, Glenn Lawton wrote:
>
>David Robbins wrote:
>> Massacusetts emissions are identical to California
>> (I think NY uses the same).
>
>
>If that's the case, why three different SKUs?
>
>0LM California Emissions nc nc
>1QE Massachusetts Emissions nc nc
>NYE New York Emissions nc nc
>
>Any manufacturer knows that you need to use common parts
>and reduce the number of SKUs to reduce inventory
>and confusion.
I understand your point, but I've been through this with two cars in the
last 21 months. The first, a 95 Ford Explorer, I had dealers doing
extensive searches in the entire NorthEast. They could only sell me cars
that had been prepared for sales in Massachusetts or New York. Most makes
only list them as CA emissions. The second is the A4Q.
- -DMR.
------------------------------
From: cngnyec <cngnyec@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:57:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: UrQ Overboost. -Reply
Andrew,
The real key here is have you/previous owners done any mods? A number of
factors can contribute to a slight over boost in a stock system, very low
ambient temps, a stuck/sticking wastgate etc. If you have done no mods
check the workings of the WG and turbo as detailed in Bentleys. I believe a
bad diaphragm would not allow you to overboost. How you deal with it
depends on whether you like the boost and want to defeat the safeties or
want to maintain stock boost parameters. Any additional comments Paul, Scott?
Mike
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 10:58:59 EST
Subject: Re: ghost in my A4q's climate control
On Nov 10, 11:27am, Reiner Fink wrote:
> Subject: ghost in my A4q's climate control
> I think that there is a cold ghost living in my A4q's climate
> control.
> Cold morning, get in, start the car set the temp to 72deg, set
> fan speed to 3 "clicks". Start driving. Drive for 2 minutes,
> and begin to accelerate up a hill. As I accelerate, the fan speed
> starts increasing as well!
Maybe the fan doubles as an intake supercharger? :-)
Sounds like an oversight in the software. The climate control
will set fan speed based on the difference between desired
and actual temp. However, when the engine is cold, it goes
into a wait mode, delaying the bumped-up fan speed until things
start to get warm in the engine (so as not to blast the passengers
with cold air). I suspect that during this cold ramp-up, the
martian software geeks who designed this thing forgot to take
into account whether you've put the fan in manual or not.
> Im due for my 7.5k oil change and I am definately
> going to have my dealer look into this, but it would be
> nice to tell him exactly what to do to fix it. ;-)
Nothing they can do. But if anyone knows what controller is
used in the climate control, please let me know!
Dan Masi
'96 A4Q
------------------------------
From: "BRUCE, ERIK D. -ERDB" <ERDB@chevron.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:51:00 -0800
Subject: A4 30v performance - what to expect?
Anybody have any feel for what to expect in performance with the 30v V6
when it's available in the A4 (hopefully the 1998 model in the US)?
Some have complained about the current 2.8 12v being slow off the line.
Is there any reason to think the added hp (from 174 to 196?) will help
the low-end performance significantly?
I had heard earlier that Audi was expecting to use the new 30v in it's
97 European models, but I haven't found any reviews yet. Did Europe get
the 30v for any 1997 models? If so, are there any reviews/ performance
numbers anybody can steer me to?
Technical question: what difference do the 3 extra valves per cylinder
make in a similar sized engine, in general. I guess the basic
difference would be it breathes better, but how does this affect hp, and
does it affect torque (which I would think is the real difference in
low-end performance)?
Finally, what's the latest about when the 30v will be available in the
A4 here in US?
Thanks. Erik Bruce (A4 soon).
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 11:00:08 EST
Subject: Re: a4 auto climate control
On Nov 11, 5:31pm, David Robbins wrote:
> Subject: Re: a4 auto climate control
>
> At 02:38 PM 11/11/96 -0500, pk001c@uhura.cc.rochester.edu wrote:
> >
> >Hi,
> >I had a question about the climate control on my 97 a4. What does the snow
> >flake mean, that the compressor is working? If I leave it in auto it is on
> >soemtimes off at others, soemtimes it wont go on even if I push it , and
>
> It sounds to me like you have a problem. When you hit auto, the snowflake
> should default to on (don't ask me why). This means the compressor (A/C) is
> active.
No, no problem. The compressor won't come on when it's too cold.
That's all.
Dan Masi
'96 A4Q
------------------------------
From: PDQSHIP@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:02:01 -0500
Subject: Repost: Driving in snow... skid control
In a message dated 96-11-12 10:47:20 EST, you write:
<< Does anyone have other suggestions and proven methods to control quattro
in
a spin/skid?
Tony K
>>
I posted this sometime ago, but it might help you out some.... The Torsen
Diff has some different characteristics, but the theory is still the same....
The biggest difference I have noticed with the torsen is the tendency to
have more of front drive characteristics under accel, than the non torsen
diff, much tougher to drive and control.....
HTH
Scott
Subj: Differential Locking - a Racing View of low traction conditions
Date: 96-02-07 16:20:19 EST
From: PDQSHIP
To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, CO Winter Driving School, Multi-plane track 8 turns, 2
straights, 100,000 gallons of water, lots of snow...... Car: 5ktq, hi - hp,
coupla mods, boost at 11-12psi, 91 octane premium, extra oil..... Tires:
P210's 205/60 on 15 X 7 rims
After trying various methods of Diff Locking at the Steamboat Winter Driving
School, I will share the following guildlines for the fastest q driving on
slippery surfaces......
* The center Diff Lock, although makes for inherent understeer, is plenty
controlable on ice and snow, and traction and control is miles ahead of open
diff operation, ABS was not enough of an offsetting factor for control or
braking.
* The Rear DIFF LOCK ON created WAY too much understeer, and generally
helped only to launch the car out of the hole, but generally sucked if you
left it on for the whole track. The technique I used was to get halfway into
the turn and then lock the rears, do a first second shift then disengage the
rear BEFORE TURNING, and since it executes un/lock under no-load conditions,
a quick blip of the throttle right before braking proved effective in
dictating the release of the rear diff..... I did not use Rear DIFF LOCK
when exiting turn 1or the loop on 8, but did use it every other turn at this
track. I tried the diff lock coming out of the sweeper on 2 (to1 to 8, CCW)
and found the understeer too much, and basically, there was no gain in time
or speed having it engaged on that straight. I would tend to bounce the car
off the snowbank on the exit of turn 1 anyway, and with DIFF LOCK ON, my
bounce became a slam, and there was no speed gain...... 8 was a 270 circle,
that was very tight, and again, no gain in speed and great loss of control by
LOCK ON.
The speeds that I attained during this event were 70-85mph on the long
straight (1-8), 60mph on the short straight (7-6)....
SUMMARY:
The use of Center Diff Lock in slippery conditions offsets any lack of ABS
for doing such. The use of the REAR DIFF LOCK all the time would give you
understeer beyond any gains in traction, and a true time loss of overall
speed. I was not aware of any gains in compression braking with rear lock
on, so I discount that traction argument. The trick is to know when the REAR
LOCK should be dis/engaged, that is, coming out of a real slow corner where
maximum Traction is desired over the MASSIVE understeer this manuever
creates. The difference was amazing...... Some comfort in the use of
"another" control is needed to Lock and Unlock the rears, but great
advantages in control were the benefits...... BTW, I did not use handbrake
turns anywhere on the track, and did little if any (taught) brake pumping,
all braking was threshold/skid type.
Bizzacks..... Another post, let's suffice it to say, my big 5ktq with
P210's was hardly outgunned.... If anyone wants more nerdy stuff like the
line vs locks, I would be happy to share.... HTH those of you with the diff
lock questions this winter
Scott
Skipper - PDQSHIP
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 11:11:05 EST
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T questions
On Nov 11, 9:03pm, Glenn Lawton wrote:
> Subject: A4 1.8T questions
> I drove (actually wailed on a bit) a 1.8T automatic/sport pkg
> at Pass&Weiss/Burlington MA on Saturday, and I REALLY want one
> (manual).
I think the manuals aren't arriving until Jan or Feb. What
have you heard?
> 1. The dealer said he'd credit me for the tires (GY RS-As) if
> I brought my own prior to delivery. Sounds good to me, depending
> on how much credit they give, but: Has anyone fit larger
> tires, the same dia as the OE 205/55-16, say 225/50-16?
Sounds good, if they credit you a reasonable amount. The
Tire Rack sells the RS-A in this size for. I've heard people
have put 225/50's on, but the upper control link clearance in
the rear tire well seems *really* close to me.
> 2. I've been doing some business with them for 11 years, and I know
> that there is MSRP, Wholesale, Invoice, and then the price that
> they really pay after promotions etc. Since this is a hot car,
> and kind of low priced, should I expect to get much/any off??
> He offered to split MSRP/Wholesale, with me, which is $1,520 off
> the $26,860 list for 1.8Tq/5spm/sport/pearl/heated seats.
> Is 5.7% off good??
I guess it really depends on the promotion, and AoA seems very
secretive about it. Back in Feb, when I bought my A4Q, it was
a very snowy time, no Q's in stock, the A4 was getting gobs
of great press, and dealers were offering me $1500 over invoice
with little trouble. I signed my contract for 1200 or 1300
(can't remember) over invoice. I know that there was major
dealer incentive at the time.
> 3. There have been many posts regarding how lo-fi Bose is.
> Does anyone have/like the 8 speaker non-Bose, non-$660
> option, stereo??
Yep. Save your $660. The radio (head unit) itself is the same,
regardless of which system you get. The Bose package just buys
you different, individually amplified and equalized, speakers.
Listen to both, but realize that there's otherwise no difference.
Dan Masi
'96 A4Q
------------------------------
From: "Dave C." <conner@cfm.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:11:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Mo'Synth
IMHO one from "Pep boys" should be
>> as good if it meets the API specs, right?
>
>There are three real leaders with many years of experience.
Yes...I remember MAnny, Moe & Jack were around when I was a boy :-)
David Conner Columbus, OH
'87 5KS, '89 100, '86 4KCSQ
------------------------------
From: tnas@dtpdirect.nl (Tom Nas, DTP Direct bv)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:12:58 +0100
Subject: Re: Audi RS2
Greg Spark wrote:
To those outside NZ this may be hard to comprehend. The reasons for this are
mainly related to price, our small population, an even smaller population
of car nuts and ready availability of all manner of performance cars if you're
prepared to pay and wait! We have minimal regulations for importing cars
compared to USA and Australia.
The second hand RS2s are on sale for NZD$145-146000. That's USD$103-104000!
I think they are over-priced and concur with Dave's suspicions about long-term
collectability, but we may well be wrong on this.
..Whoooa! $104K! Even in car overpricing country #1, Holland, with
steal-you-blind taxes, these cars are priced more reasonable. In German
magazines, I saw a couple of used ones for sale at about DM65K (US$ 40K).
In this price range I think these aren't overpriced, and the Porsche
connection should assure long-time resale. It had lots of positive reviews
here, being considered superior to the ultimate hot wagon: the Volvo 850
T5R.
I wish I could afford one, this is my ultimate dream machine...
Tom
1988 80 1.8S (not even a Porsche *sticker* on it)
_______________________________________________________________________
Tom W. Nas, graphic design tnas@dtpdirect.nl
DTP Direct bv Voice +31 (55) 5 790 799
Apeldoorn, the Netherlands Fax +31 (55) 5 790 125
If the odds are a million to one against something occuring,
chances are 50-50 it will.
------------------------------
From: dan_masi@MENTORG.COM (Dan Masi)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 11:12:43 EST
Subject: Re: A4 1.8T questions
Oooops,
Made a booboo in the previous post. The Tire Rack
sells the RS-A for $111.
- -dan
------------------------------
From: drobbins@net2net.com (David Robbins)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:12:43 -0500
Subject: Re: a4 auto climate control
At 11:00 AM 11/12/96 -0500, Dan Masi wrote:
>
>On Nov 11, 5:31pm, David Robbins wrote:
>> Subject: Re: a4 auto climate control
>>
>> At 02:38 PM 11/11/96 -0500, pk001c@uhura.cc.rochester.edu wrote:
>> >
>> >Hi,
>> >I had a question about the climate control on my 97 a4. What does the
snow
>> >flake mean, that the compressor is working? If I leave it in auto it is
on
>> >soemtimes off at others, soemtimes it wont go on even if I push it , and
>>
>> It sounds to me like you have a problem. When you hit auto, the snowflake
>> should default to on (don't ask me why). This means the compressor (A/C)
is
>> active.
>
>No, no problem. The compressor won't come on when it's too cold.
>That's all.
So, conversely, is it I that have the problem since mine still does and it's
30 degrees outside?
- -DMR.
------------------------------
From: Bryan Gunn <bgunn@voicetek.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:12:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ur-q handling - BIG improvement
Hi folks,
This message is aimed at all the folks contemplating which strut/spring
combination will make their ur-quattro handle the best. I have been planning
a suspension upgrade for quite some time and finally got the project underway
recently. Last night, I got the first big payoff.
Without upgrading my springs and struts, I had all the A-arm bushings
replaced,
new ball joints all around, and new front and rear tie rods. Then I had new
top of the line performance tires mounted and balanced (Sport 8Ks) and a
complete alignment done. The plan was to get the car back to its original
state, evaluate the handling, and see where I want to go from there. I am
really glad I did it this way, and would highly recommend that everyone who
is planning to upgrade their ur-q suspension start the same way, ESPECIALLY
if you are trying to balance a nice ride with excellent handling.
The way the car feels and handles was completely transformed by this
relatively
simple procedure. The limits are noticeably higher, the car feels very solid,
and is now extremely easy to blast around on a twisty road. I had been
planning
to install Eibach springs and some sort of upgraded strut, but now I think
I am just going to replace the worn original struts with OEM. The handling
is that good now. And the car is very comfortable to ride in.
With the car out of alignment, full of worn suspension parts, and riding on
mismatched tires, the car outcornered a brand new Mustang Cobra on a long
2-lane bending on-ramp. He was almost keeping up, but I was pulling away
from him at about 2mph. Of course, once the road straightened out, he caught
me like I was standing still. So this was the baseline with the worn parts.
So imagine a big improvement over this kind of performance and you can see
why I'm not going to mess with aftermarket stuff.
For those wondering, my ur-q is an '85 model with factory 8x15 Ronals wearing
215/50-15 Dunlop Sport 8000s. The car has the later style lowered suspension
with no rear sway bar. The car has 85K on it and the suspension is 100%
original (configuration-wise. Obviously I just replaced a bunch of parts
with OEM replacements). Struts and springs are original.
My suspension work and alignment, etc, were performed at Chris Semple's shop
(Autobahn) up in NH. I am now "another satisfied customer"!
Later,
- --
******************************************************************************
* Bryan Gunn Email: bgunn@voicetek.com
*
* Voicetek Corporation Tel: 508.250.7998 *
* 19 Alpha Road Fax: 508.250.9378 *
* Chelmsford, MA 01824 *
******************************************************************************
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V3 #1361
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