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quattro-digest Wednesday, 8 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 034
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Re: Cheap filters....CR
Ticking noise
Starting problems on my '91 200
Re: Faster than you...
Re: Bentley Manual -83 UR-Q
Re: Kemco needs a Quattro
Audi prices in The Netherlands
Re: Ticking noise
Re: RFI: Hella Driving Lights for 5K
Temp sending unit = hesitation?
Re: Oil Filter Difference's, in general
Re: BIG VALVES -Reply
Kemco needs a Quattro
Ticking noise
2 uh-ohs in one day
Re: LA Auto Show
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: WARATAP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:48:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Cheap filters....CR
About Consumer Reports. They also did a test on engine oils last year and
found little difference between them, whether synthetic or not. Yeh right!
Of course, they also used NYC taxis as their test fleet (a sorry bunch of
vehicles IMHO) that, they would admit, were running almost constantly (ie.,
didn't have to start a cold engine very much). What, not a REAL WORLD
test?!?!
We all have our preferences, but I'd agree with Al that your oil filter
(close to the cheapest thing you can buy for your quattro) can mean so much
to its longevity. Its your car.
- -Ingo Rautenberg
90 V8Q
85 4KQ
------------------------------
From: Schmidt242@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 03:34:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Ticking noise
Once in a while on my 87 4000Q, I hear a ticking noise from the engine that
is louder than normal. Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas
what this is from?
Bryan Schmidt
schmidt242@aol.com
91 200T
87 4000Q
86 4000S
95 VW GTI VR6
------------------------------
From: Schmidt242@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:44:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Starting problems on my '91 200
Once in a while, my 91 200 has problems starting. It turns over normal, but
it takes much longer to start, sometimes even shutting off when it finally
does start. It is hesitent when you step on the accelerator. It stays at
the same RPM and is kind of jerky as it revs higher, although it is fine at
RPMs up to about 3500. I have already tried many things to remedy the
situation. A couple months ago, I took it to the dealer, where they replaced
all 5 fuel injectors. Some bad gas apparently ate through the seals around
the injectors. Also, the spark plugs have been replaced numerous times. I
have also tried fuel injector cleaner and high octane gas, all with no
results. This has been a problem for some time now, and no one is really
sure what the problem is. If anyone else has experienced this same problem
or has an idea of what the cause is, please let me know! Any help is
appreciated!
Bryan Schmidt
schmidt242@aol.com
91 200
87 4000Q
86 4000S
95 VW GTI VR6
------------------------------
From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" <graydon@apollo.gmi.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:03:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Faster than you...
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Sargent Schutt wrote:
> I regularly whip local high school punks in the older 5.0 and newer 4.6
> GT's in my 86 5ktq (I.A. chip, etc). My "old man's sedan", that is. It's
> always worth slowing down so I can see the looks on their faces ;-).
I don't know what you guys are doing, but I can't get anybody to go with
me! I'd love to ra... I mean drive beside a 5.0 or a Camaro once in
awhile, but they won't even give me a first look.
Later, ----------------------------------------------------------
Graydon D. Stuckey '85 Mazda RX7 GS, no toys
graydon@apollo.gmi.edu '86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, has toys
Flint, Michigan USA '89 Thunderbird SC, lotsa toys
------------------------------
From: audidudi@delphi.com (Jeffrey J. Goggin)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 03:11:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Bentley Manual -83 UR-Q
>Is there a Bentley Manual for the 4000 series that begins before 1984? The
>only one I see in the catalog and that is available in my supply store is the
>84-87 model yrs, which includes all the 4000 and coupe GT models. If there
>is an earlier edition, what number is it? Thanks-----Rob Greene
Yes, there is an earlier edition ... two of them, in fact. The first
Bentley (and NLA) covers the '80 & '81 4000 and the later edition covers the
'80 through '83 4000/Coupe. Believe it or not, but the two aren't the same
- -- the earlier one has a lot better quality photos and includes more info
about the not-very-common 5+5 than the later one -- and I found both of them
in a used-book store (as I have all but two of the Bentleys I own) for $20
or less. Alas, I'm not at home tonight so I don't have the book numbers
handy...
_________________________________________________________________________
_ _
/ | _| o | \ _| o Jeffrey Goggin
/__| | | / | | __ | | | | / | | audidudi@delphi.com
/ | |_| \_| | |_/ |_| \_| | http://people.delphi.com/audidudi
_________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Mike <mike@padd.press.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:55:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Kemco needs a Quattro
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Phil Payne wrote:
> In message <19970107.133002.4278.0.jpmahala@juno.com> jpmahala@juno.com (John P Mahala) writes:
>
> In the latter event, I can get the numbers for you from Historic Motorsport.
>
This "Historic Motorsport" place, is it like a museum where you turn up,
pays ya money and has a look round?
It just that Ive seen pictures of lots of cars in there from the VW/Audi
magazine, and I wanted to make a day trip of it sometime :-)
Michael Burton
Systems Administrator, PA Data Design
===========================================================================
4 Wheels - Audi Quattro - 88 Model UK Audi Quattro Owners Club
2 Wheels - Suzuki RG500 - 88 Model Might be able to insure it one day
4 Legs - A raving *nutter* horse Just on Loan
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: tnas@dtpdirect.nl (Tom Nas, DTP Direct bv)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:35:35 +0100
Subject: Audi prices in The Netherlands
Hi BMW-bashing list! :-)
For those of you interested, I just received the latest Audi prices for '97.
As you can see, we can get just about anything Ingolstadt churns out over
here, but those prices... just compare this to what you pay, and remember
that in Europe we have no way to find out dealer cost, possible incentive
schemes and the like! On top of that, hefty delivery charges are added (Dfl
1000+), as is an environmental surcharge for dismantling. I calculated
approximate US $ prices by dividing by 1.75, for UKP divide by 2.35.
Of course, for those of you *not* interested, look for the Delete key
please. ;-)
Price Dfl Price US$
A3 1.6* 41900 23943
A3 1.8 5V* 46900 26800
A3 1.8 5V Turbo* 51900 29657
A3 1.9 TDI 90hp* 46900 26800
Ambition package +3950 +2257
Ambiente package +4950 +2829
A4 1.6* 49990 28566
A4 1.8 5V* 56390 32223
A4 1.8 5V Quattro 63390 36223
A4 1.8 5V Turbo* 63790 36451
A4 1.8 5V Turbo Quattro 70790 40451
A4 2.6* 69090 39480
A4 2.6 Quattro 76090 43480
A4 2.8 5V* 82990 47423
A4 2.8 5V Quattro* 89990 51423
A4 Avant 1.6* 53990 30851
A4 Avant 1.8 5V* 60390 34509
A4 Avant 1.8 5V Quattro 67390 38509
A4 Avant 1.8 5V Turbo* 67790 38737
A4 Avant 1.8 5V Turbo Quattro 74790 42737
A4 Avant 2.6* 73090 41766
A4 Avant 2.6 Quattro 80090 45766
A4 Avant 2.8 5V* 86990 49709
A4 Avant 2.8 5V Quattro* 93990 53709
A4 1.9 DI 53990 30851
A4 1.9 TDI 90hp* 58290 33309
A4 1.9 TDI 110hp* 61590 35194
A4 1.9 TDI 110hp Quattro 68590 39194
A4 Avant 1.9 TDI 90hp* 62290 35594
A4 Avant 1.9 TDI 110hp* 65590 37480
A4 Avant 1.9 TDI 110hp Quattro 72590 41480
A6 1.8 5V* 63790 36451
A6 1.8 5V Quattro 71790 41023
A6 2.6* 74990 42851
A6 2.6 Quattro* 82990 47423
A6 2.8* 82990 47423
A6 2.8 Quattro* 90990 51994
A6 2.8 5V* 89990 51423
A6 2.8 Quattro 5V* 97990 55994
A6 Avant 1.8 5V 69790 39880
A6 Avant 1.8 5V Quattro 77790 44451
A6 Avant 2.6* 80990 46280
A6 Avant 2.6 Quattro* 88990 50851
A6 Avant 2.8* 88990 50851
A6 Avant 2.8 Quattro* 96990 55423
A6 Avant 2.8 5V* 95990 54600
A6 Avant 2.8 5V Quattro* 103990 59423
A6 1.9 TDI 90hp* 65990 37709
A6 2.5 TDI 115hp* 74990 42851
A6 2.5 TDI 140hp* 79990 45709
A6 2.5 TDI 140hp Quattro 87990 50280
A6 Avant 1.9 TDI 90hp* 71990 41137
A6 Avant 2.5 TDI 115hp* 80990 46280
A6 Avant 2.5 TDI 140hp* 85990 49137
A6 Avant 2.5 TDI 140hp Quattro 93990 53709
S6 Quattro* 124990 71423
S6 Plus 4.2 Quattro* 149990 85709
S6 Avant Quattro* 130990 74851
S6 Plus Avant 4.2 Quattro* 155990 89137
Cabriolet 2.0E 79990 45709
Cabriolet 2.6E* 90990 51994
Cabriolet 2.8E* 99990 57137
Cabriolet 1.9 TDI 90hp 82990 47423
A8 2.8 5V# 138890 79366
A8 2.8 5V Quattro# 148890 85080
A8 3.7# 160890 91937
A8 3.7 Quattro# 170890 97651
A8 4.2 Quattro# 185890 106223
S8 4.2 Quattro# 213890 122223
*auto trans optional
#auto trans standard
..OK, you get great lights for those prices, but also fuel at $1.30/litre!
As a PS: the new model A6 is rumoured to be available here form May, and
the new S4 from July. Pricing TBA...
Bye,
Tom
1988 80 1.8S (worth about $5K here...)
_______________________________________________________________________
Tom W. Nas, graphic design tnas@dtpdirect.nl
DTP Direct bv Voice +31 (55) 5 790 799
Apeldoorn, the Netherlands Fax +31 (55) 5 790 125
Lt. George: 'Sir, what do we do when we step on a mine?'
Capt. Blackadder: 'Well, the usual procedure is to jump sixty feet in
the air, and scatter yourself over a large area.'
'Blackadder goes forth'
------------------------------
From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <Doyt@poboxes.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:40:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Ticking noise
Yes....Glad to hear someone else has it also. Mine had it far worse when
new, on cold start after a few
idle days. I think it is a built-in characteristic of the car...to have
various kinds of tickings, that is.
Granted, that louder one is worrisome, but it goes away if the engine speeds
up under load.
The condition almost totally disappeared this fall, when I switched from
Fram to Bosch for oil filter, and from 10W-30 Pennzoil to 5W-50 Syntec.
Very encouraging.
Keep us posted on this condition and what seems to modify it.
Doyt
86 4KcsQ 150,000 miles
...........................................................................
............
At 04:12 AM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Once in a while on my 87 4000Q, I hear a ticking noise from the engine that
>is louder than normal. Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas
>what this is from?
>
>
>Bryan Schmidt
>schmidt242@aol.com
>
>91 200T
>87 4000Q
>86 4000S
>95 VW GTI VR6
>
------------------------------
From: Jim Griffin <JGriff@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:07:49 -0500
Subject: Re: RFI: Hella Driving Lights for 5K
At 10:33 PM 01/07/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm in the dark about something - as I guess most 5k drivers are after
>sunset. Anyway, I have a 1987 5KCSTQW and was thinking about adding some
>driving lights so I cann go out after dark. I currently always use my
>brights and they are just barely enough.
>
>A friend who has the same car put on some Hella 5500 driving lights. He
>loves them. I was wondering if you had any other thoughts, experiences or
>suggestions. These cost about $130 locally for the pair and the kit.
>
>Thanks and stay bright!
>
I'm guessing that you must have just subscribed, because the list has
recently (within the past month or so) generated a lot of discussion on
lighting, specifically Hella XLs (which would be a better auxiliary
headlight choice than the 550's), Euro lights and whatever else people have
experimented with.
Check the archives for the past month or so, and you'll "see" (pun intended)
what everyone has had to said.
I paid $99.00 for my XLs at Pep Boys (and then some little $ at Home Depot
for installation tidbits). Other than my CB radio set-up (i.e. Smokey
patroller and traffic monitor....), it was the best $100.00 I've spent on my
car. I can't imagine driving without (either of) them.
As the song goes "I can see clearly now...."
Good luck.
Jim Griffin
JGriff@pobox.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475
Maryland, USA
"Perception is often stronger than reality!"
'92 100S
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~OOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: Jim Griffin <JGriff@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:07:56 -0500
Subject: Temp sending unit = hesitation?
I'm still diagnosing (somewhat through "baby-steps" trial-and-error... small
$ first!!) a part-throttle hesitation. I'm going to replace the plug wires
first (since last summer, it was diagnosed with one bad wire, and the
problem seemed to have gone away).
I've been thinking that it may be the O2 sensors, but don't want to do them
if they are not needed, since they range in price from $110.00 to $162.00
apiece (and the V-6 calls for two!!). I spoke to a reputable mechanic, and
he said that I should hold off and try looking into some other things first.
I could turn this into a lengthy post, but nah... I'll spare you the BW.
Here's my question:
As you've probably seen my recent post about my intermittent coolant gauge
(which everyone has said is a bad sending unit), could a faulty temp sending
unit cause a part-throttle hesitation/stumble? Doesn't the car's "brain" get
it's readings from this, in order to help adjust the mixture etc..?
If I replace this, could it solve my problem? (I'm going to replace it
anyway... but it would be great if it solves two problems!!)
TIA
Jim Griffin
JGriff@pobox.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475
Maryland, USA
"Perception is often stronger than reality!"
'92 100S
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~OOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: Jim Griffin <JGriff@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:07:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Filter Difference's, in general
At 08:26 PM 01/07/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Well Mike, maybe some our listers will put in a diesel filter in their Qs
>and save some money on those costly "synthetic" oil changes at $3-5 a qt.
>Lets add the numbers, our esteem listers like to change their "synthetic"
>at 3K so with a large filter (twice the one they are currently using) they
>can change their "synthetic" at 6K, what a great savings of our planet
>resources!!!!
FWIW, this lister changes his Amsoil synthetic at 12k mile intervals, with a
filter change (with a very high quality Amsoil oil filter) at 6k miles.
Never a problem. Been doing it for years.
And I'm being conservative!! Amsoil recommends/allows changes at 25k mile
intervals, with the filter change at 12.5k miles. I just can't convince
myself to let it go that long..... go ahead, call me a wimp!!! :-)
Jim Griffin
JGriff@pobox.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475
Maryland, USA
"Perception is often stronger than reality!"
'92 100S
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~OOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: Jim Griffin <JGriff@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:07:51 -0500
Subject: Re: BIG VALVES -Reply
At 01:36 AM 01/08/97 -0500, you wrote:
>The risk of sodium is that it reacts violently with water to produce
>hydrogen gas, and the hydrogen gas
>frequently explodes/burns due to the large amount of heat generated by the
>reaction. Sodium itself is a metal
>with a low melting point.
>
<Important safety tip snipped>
Thanks for the informative post. Much appreciated. Ya' never know... it may
just save a life, limb etc. some day.
Jim Griffin
JGriff@pobox.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475
Maryland, USA
"Perception is often stronger than reality!"
'92 100S
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~OOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 12:06:51 GMT
Subject: Kemco needs a Quattro
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.970108104750.5584A-100000@marjoram.compnews.co.uk> Mike writes:
> This "Historic Motorsport" place, is it like a museum where you turn up,
> pays ya money and has a look round?
Historic Motorsport make no charge that you or I could afford. It's also known
as "The Toybox" and it's David Sutton's business. David was heavily involved
in the Audi rally scene in the early 1980s - he built cars for Blomqist,
Mouton, Wilson, etc., and is still friends with most of them. He's the
Honorary President of the UK quattro Owners Club and attends all committee
meetings. He has business partners all over the continent (especially in Spain)
and deals in vintage rally cars and replicas.
Just turn up and say you're a UK Club member. He holds membership #1, BTW.
How much time and attention you get depends on what kind of a day he's had. In
the morning, with the 'deal of the century' brewing over some veteran car, he
might not have the time to say "Hello". In the afternoon, after some
successful business and a good lunch, he can be a very amiable host indeed.
He's not just into Audis. His company also builds replica Mk I Escorts, Mini-
Coopers, MGs, the lot. He has a soft spot for quattros, though, and there are
usually quite a few famous cars about. He contributed five cars to the last
Coy's exhibition.
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 12:26:24 GMT
Subject: Ticking noise
In message <1.5.4.32.19970108114026.00663220@nwohio.com> "Doyt W. Echelberger" writes:
> The condition almost totally disappeared this fall, when I switched from
> Fram to Bosch for oil filter, and from 10W-30 Pennzoil to 5W-50 Syntec.
> Very encouraging.
Sources for ticking noises on Audi 5-cylinder engines:
======================================================
a) On older carburettor engines, the fuel pump is mechanically driven
off the camshaft. Loosen the Allen screws and lift the pump slightly -
if the noise stops, change the pump.
b) On some engines, there is a pushrod vacuum pump. I've heard that this
can be removed to test if it is causing the problem.
c) Lifters - either mechanical (tappets) or hydraulic. Mechanical noise
can reduce a little if the engine is warm - hydraulic lifter noise is
likely to cease at high revs or after a drive. If it doesn't, a
lifter may have failed - this is fairly uncommon. Hydraulic lifter
noise is usually louder if the engine has been standing for a while.
d) Exhaust manifold cracks. Much more noticable when restarting an
engine that has partially cooled. Rare on on non-turbo engines.
Any more, anyone? Would this make a good FAQ if it was fleshed out with the
engine codes?
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: Andrew Duane USG/PE <duane@zk3.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:39:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 2 uh-ohs in one day
The first one bothers me a lot.
Very intermittently, after coasting a while I have almost no brakes.
The pedal sinks halfway to the floor before doing anything. If I
let up and pump once, the brakes are fine again. This happened
twice: about 3 weeks ago, and again this morning. No brake light,
pentosin level OK. Other than this, brakes seem fine in normal use.
Maybe if I keep pressing the pedal for a while when stopped, it
sinks a little until I pump once. Sound like a master cylinder?
The second one is just stoopid :-)
I dropped my gas cap, and the black plastic handle/cover broke.
The lock mechanism is OK, as is the neck seal. I'd like to get
a used one from a boneyard and just replace the plastic cover.
Anyone have clues on how this is done (I mean without dropping it)?
- --
Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7) duane@zk3.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation (603)-881-1294
110 Spit Brook Road
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH 03062-2698
Only my cat shares my opinions, and she's too heavy to care.
------------------------------
From: tnas@dtpdirect.nl (Tom Nas, DTP Direct bv)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:59:46 +0100
Subject: Re: LA Auto Show
>>Ah, I was just at the lesser SF Auto show and saw that the A6qw and
>>ovlov 960 wagon were the same price at around 38k. The T5R and
>>varients are smaller and not the same class of car, hence the
>>existence of the 960.
>
>Uhh Mike, sorry, but I was talking about the S70/90 and V70/90 and not
>the 960. The 960 is last years model, big and boxy, with no turbo or
>awd. Smaller and not the same class? I don't think so. They didn't
>even have 1997 models at the LA Auto Show. BTW, the A6's I saw were
>both 41K, not 38K.
According to the Dutch AutoWeek, the S/V70 and 90 are the successors to
respectively the 850 and the 940/960. Here in Holland we get another,
locally produced, S/V40 model. It's based on a common frame with (another
local) Mitsubishi, the Carisma (no spelling error, just semi-humorous)
They intend to race these 40-series in the BTCC next season. Test drove a
standard version, thought it was cr*p. Well below the Swedish Volvo build
quality. They intend to compete with the Audi A4 with this car... a good
thing it's a *lot* cheaper!
Tom
_______________________________________________________________________
Tom W. Nas, graphic design tnas@dtpdirect.nl
DTP Direct bv Voice +31 (55) 5 790 799
Apeldoorn, the Netherlands Fax +31 (55) 5 790 125
Lt. George: 'Sir, what do we do when we step on a mine?'
Capt. Blackadder: 'Well, the usual procedure is to jump sixty feet in
the air, and scatter yourself over a large area.'
'Blackadder goes forth'
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #34
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