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quattro-digest Saturday, 25 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 160
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
RE: Possible 91 200q purchase; questions
Re: two things
Re: 86 4000 CSQ "Centennial Series"
Re: '86 4000CSQ
Part 2: Audi '86 "Commemorative Design" Series (long)
Die-Hard(er) Battery for 1990 200 qtw
Fwd: V6 Reliability -Reply
RE:4Q bumper lights
RE:4Q bumper lights
HOW BAD IS A REPAIR ON CENTER SUPPORT BEARING 4KQ 86
KC Lights
Re: Die-Hard(er) Battery for 1990 200 qtw
MB vs RR
Re: 86 4000 CSQ "Centennial Series"
Re: KC Lights
re: cupholder
MB vs RR
wrecked v8
Re: Corroded Wheels!??
"Centennial Series"
Re: Dead Horses
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tgsgronback@mindspring.com (Steve Gronback)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:27:24 -0500
Subject: RE: Possible 91 200q purchase; questions
Steve Gronback wrote:
> windshield leaked and more
Mine does too- right side. Is there an easy fix? If not, what is the
difficult fix? (Dealer couldn't even FIND it, never mind fix it!!
> Audi dealer and local Audi shops just don't have the test equipment to
really keep this car running right.
IMO, what they lack most is knowledge. You should try taking an Ur-Q
to my dealer!
> I've learned more from the guys on this
> list than I ever did in 6 months of taking the car to the "shop".
Me too. Thanks to everyone.
Kerry Leeds
91tq RS2ex.man, Ur-Q Ronals
89 80q betterhalfmobile
87 Fat Chance (daily commuter)
96 Y-22 (frameset only original)
Too many skis
big-ass snowblower (w/synthetic oil- flame all you want!)
Steve Gronback
TGS Studios
91 Audi 200q
Look KG 96 Team Replica
------------------------------
From: Dale McCormack <profit@mcs.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:26:56 -0600
Subject: Re: two things
> Whenever I brake the idle drops down and it feels like it's going to stall.
> It doesn't and then idles ok. Any ideas what this might be ? Also, the idle
> seems to be somewhat erratic and I think the car idles rough, but that
> might be another story.
Start with a complete tune-up: plugs, rotor, Bosch distributor cap,
maybe wires depending on miles since replacement, fuel filter, etc.
>
> Sound like it's time to diagnose the fuel injection system...OXS and duty
> cycle are easy places to start and from there it just gets to be more fun!
If the problem persists: O2 sensor, Idle Compensation Regulator/Valve.
I just replaced the latter last night (177K) and she idles smoothly for
the first time in 100K, I wasn't too bothered by the varying idle
(1200-1700 RPM). Some have bigger complaints when the ICR goes bad.
Make sure you replace it with one from the OEM manufacturer.
> Oh yeah, it's an automatic, so the transmission/torque converter might be
> implicated, right? Anybody experience that theory IRL?
>
> Huw Powell
> HUMAN Speakers
>
> and your emories like a train...
> you can see it getting smaller as it pulls away
>
> Tom Waits
>
> http://www.thebook.com/human-speakers
------------------------------
From: Jim & Bev <jazman@accunet.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:56:56 -0800
Subject: Re: 86 4000 CSQ "Centennial Series"
Doyt W. Echelberger wrote:
>
> I think I just heard a rousing synchronous CLAP for "jazman," as The Audi
> Gods recognized his achievement of unraveling and documenting the mystery of
> what "cs" means.
I'm not sure, but wasn't the CS designation used prior to 1986?
------------------------------
From: Bfuson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:04:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: '86 4000CSQ
I'm the original owner of an '86 4000CS Q so might be able to help a little.
There were a few 1986 Commemorative Edition autos in both the 4000 and 5000
series. I've only heard of them in the quattro line, but I'm not positive of
that so it's an assumption on my part, definitely not factual.
For 1986, the red leather interior was an indicator of the commemorative
version. For the 4000Q it included the trip computer, the power sunroof,
special floormats (mine are black with red outline quattro stitching), and
the red leather interior. A side note here, the trip computer's gas mileage
indicator is interesting, but don't believe it as anything other than a rough
indicator of gas flow and vacuum draw by the engine. There is a three
position switch inside the instrument cluster which biases the caluculation
at one of three levels. They/you can adjust this if you want to try to get
you gas mileage calculation a tad more accurate.
I'm now on my third quattro (still have the '86, a traded '89 200Q, and
currently a '92 S4) and the trip computer continues to be inaccurate. It's
better in the S4, but I would never bet on it in a pinch.
At this point, the 4000CSQ has over 220K miles on it, is still my favorite
overall (probably because it was my first quattro) and it continues to be
unbelievably reliable. It's had two brake replacements (should be due for a
third set in a few thousand more miles), the clutch was just replaced for the
first time, everything else has just been normal maintenance. Admittedly, it
doesn't have the power and response of either the 200Q or definitely the S4,
but as a car to take out and enjoy driving on fun roads - I like it.
If yours has been taken care of, and you do the same it should easily last
you a long time. Note: I tend to be a maintenance fanatic and am probably a
little wasteful along that line, but I learned from aviation that if you take
care of your equipment it will be there to take care of you.
Enjoy!
------------------------------
From: Jim & Bev <jazman@accunet.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:23:23 -0800
Subject: Part 2: Audi '86 "Commemorative Design" Series (long)
Part 2: The Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan
==============================================
On April 30, 1986
I received an art print of the 1986 Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan. I guess I was on
their mailing list, since we bought a new 1985 5000S the year before. I've got the print
framed and it hung for many years in my office, now its at home. If I had test driven a
new Audi, I would have received 3 additional art prints of the other cars in the
Commemorative series. Here's the schedule of the installments that make up the
brochure describing the 1986 Commemorative Design:
Day 1 "A Celebration in Engineering and Innovation"
Day 2 The Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan <= Today's feature!
Day 3 The Commemorative Design 4000CS Sedan
Day 4 The Commemorative Design 4000CS Quattro
Day 5 The Commemorative Design Coupe GT
The Commemorative Design 5000CS Sedan
=====================================
Since its introduction, the Audi 5000 Series sedan has been hailed by
critics as a well-conceived and executed automobile, organic in design
and pleasing in both substance and form. What then could Audi have done
to make it more desirable and worthy of inclusion in the Commemorative
Design Series?
To begin with, fashion a rich new interior. Add an incredible premium
sound system. Offer distinctive interior/exterior color combinations
and highlights. Then include new standard luxury and performance features.
The result? An Audi that looks, feels and acts like no 5000 Series sedan
before it. The 5000CS sedan's full complement of Commemorative Design
Series features include:
*Alcantara suede-like upholstery with leather bolstering in Sierra Beige,
plus Sierra Beige Leather and Alcantara door panel inserts
*AM/FM cassette radio, electronically tuned with 10-speaker sound system
*Choice of Graphite Metallic or Calahari Beige Metallic paint finish
*Expandable ski/storage sack
*Front sport seats
*Full-width taillamp treatment
*Instrument panel, carpeting and trim in Graphite
*Leather-wrapped steering wheel
*Plush, logo-embroidered, carpet floor mats
*Spoke alloy wheels with flush center caps
*Tilt/Slide power sunroof
Selected models will be available with one or more of the following features:
*Automatic transmission
*Power Seats
*Trip computer
The following Audi 5000S standard features are also included: 5-cylinder
fuel-injected engine, power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering, four-wheel
disc brakes, electronic climate control system, power windows, door locks and
mirrors, cruise control, full instrumentation, fully galvanized steel body,
36-month/50,000-mile limited warranty and six-year limited warranty against
corrosion perforation.
####
Tomorrow, The Commemorative Design 4000 CS Sedan
Happy Motoring,
jazman
------------------------------
From: Antilles Engineering <antilles@madriver.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:34:12 -0800
Subject: Die-Hard(er) Battery for 1990 200 qtw
Dear Fellow-Listers (hope this not taken as a politically incorrect slight)
Battery in our 1990 200 vaggon is dying. Someone on the list recently
bought a Sears Die Hard that was the exact form-size. Could someone please
give the battery stock number and what it costs (if remembered)?
My email address is moose@madriver.com if you wish to reply directly. TIA
Doug
"186,000 miles/sec: It's not just the law, it's a good idea!"
------------------------------
From: RCARSELLE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:56:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fwd: V6 Reliability -Reply
My friend with a V6 contributes this .....
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: tjacoby@LTCOL.MHS.CompuServe.COM
To: GREYWOLF@IQUEST.NET, RCARSELLE@aol.com, SCLINE@XLCONNECT.COM
Date: 97-01-23 16:24:19 EST
Hello from another V6 owner.
I have a '92 100 CS with about 75K. I bought it in Oct. '95 with about 56K
on it. I really enjoy this car- very smooth, nice road manners. Best drive
was through W. Va. and Va. mountains on the non-interstate highways.
It's not Quattro....
I have had a few minor problems, but nothing more than you would
expect. Problems have been very minor - burned out bulbs, bad EGR
solinoid. The past owner had virtually zero service problems, always
took it to the same dealer for the maintenance.
Any disatisfaction with the car has been a result of business dealings
with one of the Audi dealers in the area. As a result, I have not been
back for service and have done much of the maintenance myself with
the help of other Audi owners.
The car does consume oil-about 1 qt. every 1500 mile and I have been
wondering what this means. I have been told it is normal for these cars
to "consume" oil, but I haven't been able to get any data on how much.
So, I am "glad" to hear that this is something other V6 owners have
experienced.
I have tried a variety of oils in it ranging from 20W 50 to synthetics
(currently Mobil 1). It doesn't seem to make a difference with the amount
consumed.
Is there anything I should be looking out for at 75K miles?
Add another to the list:
Tom
Columbus, Ohio, USA
92 100CS
------------------------------
From: "M Tipton" <miktip@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:54:26 -0600
Subject: RE:4Q bumper lights
>This kit mounted the driving lights in the lower grill under the
bumper and
>not in place of the reflectors ... the euro-bumpers are mounted
differently
>and can be transplanted but getting your hands one in the US could be
quite
>difficult. BTW, the foglight kit is NLA although I do have one that
I will
>consider parting with...
The "factory fog light" for the 4qk-Coupe's is primarily designed for
the "Euro"
version of the 4kq-Coupe's. I ordered the fog kit from Audi in San
Rafiel Ca.
It arrived, and wasnt an easy "bolt on install" It looked to be
designed for any other
bumper than that of the US cars! Maybe I had the wrong kit? I called
Sonnen
to verify this, and they confirmed it was designed for the Euro make
cars.
However they also stated "with modifications you could make it fit"
So I tried and the lights only lasted 2 years, and replacement parts
were next
to nonexistant. Not to mention the cost of the original kit! I could
of purchased
3 sets of Hella's, for the Audi kits price. But since I thought it
was from Audi....
M
------------------------------
From: "M Tipton" <miktip@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:27:39 -0600
Subject: RE:4Q bumper lights
RE:4Q bumper lights
>BTW, what would stop one from putting the turn indicators into the
parking
>light receptacles, by using a double filament socket vice the single
>filament one there, and some creative wiring?
Only the difficulty of trying to find a double-filament socket that
fits the
OEM socket mounting hole in the light ... tried this with my 5k,
struck out
and decided to add a second bulb instead. Much easier...
I installed my turn signal (86Coupe-4kq) into the side market element
with a small
jumper wire from the original connector. I placed driving lights into
the bumper
position originally enclosing the turn signals.
Problem is there harder to see in the side marker position, especially
with the headlights on!
Other than that, they work fine!
M
------------------------------
From: DNUS5023@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:55:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HOW BAD IS A REPAIR ON CENTER SUPPORT BEARING 4KQ 86
Quattrotistas,
Am looking at an 86 4kq that I heard about right here (thanks Dan!). I am
told it has a bad center support bearing. My mech. said it could cost up to
$1000.00 to repair. This is a guy that has been working on my 84 coupe fwd
for years and I trust his initial evaluation, although he has not fully
priced it out yet.
Any feedback on the job would be apprciated.
Thanks,
John
------------------------------
From: Mann Law <mannlaw@indy.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:46:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: KC Lights
While KC sold cheaper lights for some trucks, it has been a *big*
player in Baja racing for more years than I'd like to remember. BTW,
they keep 'em burnin' even in the heavy dust.
Bruce
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:58:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Die-Hard(er) Battery for 1990 200 qtw
>Dear Fellow-Listers (hope this not taken as a politically incorrect
slight)
Hey Doug,
Don't be a woos (it is not a four letter word Bob), we thrive on
controversy, it is going to be very boring without some heated discussions
every once in a while.....
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
I am not always the devil advocate, but never one to miss an opportunity....
------------------------------
From: Mike <mike@padd.press.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:01:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: MB vs RR
Ive seen a few notes on there not being much difference between the 10V
MB engine model and the 20V RR model, but I have recently noticed that
while my MB pulls 89mph in 3rd, my friends RR pulls 99mph, and the
difference in 4th gear is mine does 119mph and his pulls 136mph. 5th
gear, well ermmm, Ive seen an indicated 143mph and he's seen 158mph.
Both cars are (as far as we know) standard, excepts the RR no longer
carries the two catalytic converters. (It still passes the MOT emissions
test though)
If you sit and drive/ride in both cars, it is easy to notice that the 20V
is the faster car, so the only place you are going to keep up with a 20V
in a 10V is on a twisty road with not many straights?
But the plus side to owning the MB is that it does not drink as much
fuel, and the 10V engine sounds *so* much better ;-)
Just my Saturday's waffles worth....
(also hope I am correct in calling the 20V an RR engine)
Michael Burton
Systems Administrator, PA Data Design
===========================================================================
4 Wheels - Audi Quattro - 88 Model UK Audi Quattro Owners Club
2 Wheels - Suzuki RG500 - 88 Model Might be able to insure it one day
4 Legs - A raving *nutter* horse Just on Loan
2 Legs - Shanks Pony Last resort
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: STEADIRIC@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:10:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 86 4000 CSQ "Centennial Series"
>> I think I just heard a rousing synchronous CLAP for "jazman," as The Audi
>> Gods recognized his achievement of unraveling and documenting the mystery
of
>> what "cs" means.
Ahhhhhhh Some Signal!!!! Much better than alot of the Noise that we
have been seeing on the list!
Keep it up Jazman!!
Later!
Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
'87 5KCSTQIA2RSR2B
St. Louis, MO
STEADIRIC@aol.com
------------------------------
From: STEADIRIC@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:12:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: KC Lights
> While KC sold cheaper lights for some trucks, it has been a *big*
>player in Baja racing for more years than I'd like to remember. BTW,
>they keep 'em burnin' even in the heavy dust.
And a big player at Daytona and Sebring..... Bigger than Hella want's to
admit!
Later!
Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
'87 5KCSTQIA2RSR2B
St. Louis, MO
STEADIRIC@aol.com
------------------------------
From: "George S Achorn III" <coolidge@nicom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:08:40 -0500
Subject: re: cupholder
This is not the same as a herrington or wal-mart cupholder. This is an oem
part with rubber pieces to mold around various sizes of cups, and a rubber
mat to keep the cup from sliding. They work well and are well worth $40 if
you spend alot of time in your car. For my VWs they match the interior
also, and fold away. I have one in both cars and highly reccomend them.
Later - George
'94 Jetta GLX '93 Corrado SLC
Black/Black Clothe Dark Green/Tan Leather
VW CD Changer VW CD Changer
Keyless Entry Keyless Entry
Euro Center Console North First Aid Kit
Passat Cupholder Passat Cupholder
Fisher C-box K&N Filtercharger
Yokohoma A509s Yokohoma A509s
Euro Center Console Brushed Silver SLC tag
Passat Console Insert Brushed Silver VR6 tag
Doorbin Inserts 475mm Rear Wiper (18")
A3 Molded Splashguards A3 Molded Splashguards
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:10:09 GMT
Subject: MB vs RR
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.970125171626.1488A-100000@marjoram.compnews.co.uk> Mike writes:
> If you sit and drive/ride in both cars, it is easy to notice that the 20V
> is the faster car, so the only place you are going to keep up with a 20V
> in a 10V is on a twisty road with not many straights?
Perhaps. 147kw fights 162kw - a bit uneven? The torque picture is not so
uneven, but is 10% more power worth 60% more money? The engine (and the
ventilated rear discs) is about the only difference. Would you want an engine
that makes you remove the inlet manifold to get to the distributor?
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: demille@rmii.com (jim calvin)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 12:41 MST
Subject: wrecked v8
If anyone is interested in the wrecked v8 quattro mentioned to the list a
few days
ago it is at Lincoln Auto Salvage in Denver their phone Number 303-761-8014.
FYI- the car will also need an airbag in addition to the damage listed before.
Jim
------------------------------
From: SOP8920@Siena.edu
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:56:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Corroded Wheels!??
>can we self edit the profanity a little better?
>Huw Powell
>HUMAN Speakers
Huw,
Your right, I apologize for that. I wrote that post rather quickly and only
after I sent it did I notice that I used that term for a econobox. When I'm at
school, with my friends, I find myself using much more profanity just because
they do. I'm trying to stop that habit.. thanks for catching me.
Mass apologies to the list-members and their respective mothers. :)
- -Osman
------------------------------
From: "O'Malley" <qvn137@uriacc.uri.edu>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:43:04 -0400
Subject: "Centennial Series"
> From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <Doyt@poboxes.com>
> Subject: Re: 86 4000 CSQ "Centennial Series"
>
> I think I just heard a rousing synchronous CLAP for "jazman," as The Audi
> Gods recognized his achievement of unraveling and documenting the mystery of
> what "cs" means. Ten years shrouded in secrecy, known only to a chosen few.
> IMO, this was a fine use of BW. Thank you, jazman. You wrote the book on it.
>
> Doyt
> 86 4kCSq
DITTO !!!!!
Much appreciated.
& In the spirit of the Commonweal.
- --
Dennis O'Malley
------------------------------
From: dmiller@iea.com (Doug Miller)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:59:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Dead Horses
>Note that I'm _NOT_ saying that enhanced Euro lights are the best solution to
>every lighting problem. They aren't.
>
>IMO - they _ARE_ the best approach if you need good night driving light
>with an
>absolute minimum of external excrescences. Don't try and rally or race behind
>these lights - you can do a _LOT_ better with a specific application.
>
>And, as a final caution, if anyone tells you that Euros are _NOT_ as good as I
>say they are - make sure they know what they're talking about. There seems to
>be considerable confusion as to exactly _what_ a Euro headlight actually is.
>
>--
> Phil Payne
> phil@sievers.com
> Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
Phil,
As one who has driven both Euro (in my definition, lamps conforming to E
standards) and American style lamps over the years, I agree with you.
Anyone who has not driven behind the great lamps you guys get across the
pond just doesn't understand. Additionally, to drive in Europe facing
other Euro lamps coming back at you is to understand the whole concept
thoroughly.
During my years in the US auto industry, I became a lightning rod for
lighting issues by speaking out (loudly) against the US lighting standards
being the *WORST* in the world. Even third world countries have higher
standards, and it is well known in the ivory towers of the US auto industry
that this was done intentionally to protect the US lamp manufacturers. (If
we adopt EC standards here, then EC lamp manufacturers will immediately be
able to compete with US makers. If we don't, this country is the only
place US design lamps are made, and the EC makers will have a tough time
tooling up for such an uphill battle against entrenched US lamp makers).
It is a little known US regulation that bulbs on US lamps must be placed
slightly out of the focal point of the lense!! Since the focal point is
the technically ideal spot for the bulb, no manufacturer would do it except
to conform to the standard. As a result, we have lamps that produce more
extraneous light than any country in the world.
I'd pay up to $300 for optional Euro lights on a new car here in the States
if it was a factory option. Ditto for dashboard adjustable systems, and
ditto for rear fog lamps. Instead, I resort to all manner of custom
harnesses, auxiliary lamps, and finding sneaky ways to obtain European
lamps.
Just had to get that off my chest.....
C'ya
Doug Miller
dmiller@iea.com
97A6Q Wagon, 93 LandCruiser w/diff locks (and well used skidplates), 71
LeMans Sport V8 Convertible.
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #160
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