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quattro-digest Friday, 24 January 1997 Volume 04 : Number 156
*
* Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
* See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
* In this issue:
Boxter intro (was Re: 1992 Audi S4 electrical power drain)
PRO-RALLY info.
Re: horse glue
Re: What are my choices?
Re: Engine aka question
RS4 Sedan and Coupe
RE: Engine aka question
Active suspension
Boxter intro (was Re: 1992 Audi S4 electrical power drain)
Re: Dead Horses
Re: What are my choices?
Re: Oil Stuff
Volvo AWD (Was: What are my choices?)
RE: V8 quattro, 200 quattro, 90 quattro, quattro coupe
obd
Volvo AWD - Sticks or not?
RE: obd
A6 Wagons = No sticks (in U.S.)
Re: Volvo AWD (Was: What are my choices?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: steve@ipecac.engr.sgi.com (Steve Valin)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Boxter intro (was Re: 1992 Audi S4 electrical power drain)
> An interesting side note... while at this Porsche/VW/Audi dealer at 5pm,
> I noticed they had a mineral water/juice bar set up, and caterers
> walking aroudn with hors d'oeuvres. When I was paying my bill, I asked
> what the reception was for. "Oh", that's for all the new Porsche
> owners", the lady said. I thought the spread a bit extravagant, so I
> asked how many people they were expecting. "One hundred and eighteen",
> she said.
> It seems Porsche launched the Boxster in the US today, and the
> dealership was throwing a party for all it's customers who'd already
> ordered one. All 118 advance customers. At just one dealership.
I was at this dealer (Carlsen) the day before test driving an A4Q (very nice!)
and picking up brochures (very swank A8 brochure), and saw a boxter in the
flesh. Impressive. Carlsen is scheduled to get 180 of them this year, so
if you plunk down your $1000 to get on the list, you should receive yours
around July/August. I wonder if Carlsen is gouging people on the boxter. I
was surprised to see that they had no added dealer markup on the window stickers
of the A4Q's, which are pretty hot for them right now. Every other dealer I've
been to tries to get an addition $1k-2k above MSRP on the dumbest of cars from
the stupidest of people...
- -steve
------------------------------
From: JOSEV@samson-transport.com (Jose Vicente)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:24:16 +0000
Subject: PRO-RALLY info.
- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <EWR/JOSEV>
To: zcritter@netaxis.com
Organization: Samson Transport (USA) Inc.
Subject: Re: Apple Hill Pro Rally
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:54:49
I will be posting scedules for for the SCCA PRO RALLY national and
divisional series, the NORTH AMERICAN RALLY CUP and CARS
(canadian association of rally sport) RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP as well as
the ONTARIO and QUEBEC PERFORMANCE RALLY championships
as soon as I have the full confirmed information.
Hill climbs like Mt. Washington & Pikes peak will be included in
these listings.
Besr regards
Jose Vicente
*** Visit us on the web at http://www.intac.com/~samson
------------------------------
From: pacdev@csn.net
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:57:16 -0700
Subject: Re: horse glue
Just to set things straight.
Ther's a parabolics anonymous social society (PASS) which has an open invitation
to all homofocals. It seems that they can straighten any errant photons
regardless of their gravitational frame of reference.
One of the founding members was our dear friend Albert E=m(c)**.
Paul A. Caouette
Partners for Community Development
Denver, Colorado
83 TQC with 207k & Still Going
85 4000Q
And Many past Audis Gone but not Forgotten
------------------------------
From: ScharfR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:16:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What are my choices?
In a message dated 97-01-24 12:52:07 EST, DRANCHAK@commgate.kirtland.af.mil
(DRANCHAK) writes:
<< All 100/A6 wagons since 92 have offered the third seat.
I thought that a manual trans was available some years but I might be
wrong. >>
You are correct about being wrong. In the U.S. market, all A6 wagons were,
and are, automatic transmission only. As earlier noted in a response to the
original poster's question, (and again, specific to the U.S. market) the only
choice for a stick-shift, 7 passenger (5+2) quattro wagon from Audi is the
model year 1995 S6 wagon.
------------------------------
From: "Michael Benno" <mbenno@northstar-mn.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:18:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Engine aka question
Bzzt:
The 3B is a 2.3L (I5) 20 Valve Turbo
The 7A is a 2.3L (I5) 20 Valve Normal Aspiration (no turbo)
- ----------
> From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
> To: 'Lynn Smith' <lynn@dvcorp.com>; 'quattro@coimbra.ans.net'
> Subject: RE: Engine aka question
> Date: Thursday, January 23, 1997 7:34 PM
>
> The I5 20v is the 3B engine. Installed in the 91 200q and, in modified
> form (new code?), in the S4 and S6's.
> - peter
> peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
> 91 200qw
> 94 acura legend gs
> issaquah, wa, usa
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Lynn Smith [SMTP:lynn@dvcorp.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 1997 5:05 PM
> >To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
> >Subject: Engine aka question
> >
> >I periodically see references to "B3", "MC", etc. Could someone cross
> >reference these for me? Is the MC the I5, 10V? How about the B3?
What's
> >the V8 called? The I5/20V?
> >
> >Waiting to be enlightened.
> >
> >--
> >Lynn Smith
> >lynn@dvcorp.com
> >
------------------------------
From: "George S Achorn III" <coolidge@nicom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:31:03 -0500
Subject: RS4 Sedan and Coupe
Hi All, I'm back from a business trip and had a chance to load an old
project onto my new computer system from our main office.
I have some pretty cool line art side view pictures of what an Audi RS4
Coupe and sedan would look like. I scanned a side view line art drawing of
an Audi A4 and added current Porsche 911 styling including wheels, and
front and rear bumper fascias. I also added a fuba roof antenna and
sideskirts of my own design with audi rings on it (retro like the ur
quattro ring decals on the doors).
I then took it and made it a two door, with some modifications, but using
the 90 Coupe as a design model. I can email it out if you are interested.
It's black and white lineart side views of the RS4 and at the moment is in
Microsoft Word Format. I'll see what I can do to transfer it to Paint, as
I'd like to see it in color anyway.
LAter-G
------------------------------
From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:20:37 -0800
Subject: RE: Engine aka question
Uhm, yes and no.
A 200 is always turbo charged (100=NA, 200=turbo), so I'm right. And
they're both 2.2l, not 2.3.
Didn't know about the 7A code, though. Would that be the model 90 20v?
- - peter
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Benno [SMTP:mbenno@northstar-mn.com]
>Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 10:19 AM
>To: Peter Henriksen; 'Lynn Smith'; 'quattro@coimbra.ans.net'
>Subject: Re: Engine aka question
>
>Bzzt:
>The 3B is a 2.3L (I5) 20 Valve Turbo
>The 7A is a 2.3L (I5) 20 Valve Normal Aspiration (no turbo)
>
>----------
>> From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
>> To: 'Lynn Smith' <lynn@dvcorp.com>; 'quattro@coimbra.ans.net'
>> Subject: RE: Engine aka question
>> Date: Thursday, January 23, 1997 7:34 PM
>>
>> The I5 20v is the 3B engine. Installed in the 91 200q and, in modified
>> form (new code?), in the S4 and S6's.
>> - peter
>> peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
>> 91 200qw
>> 94 acura legend gs
>> issaquah, wa, usa
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Lynn Smith [SMTP:lynn@dvcorp.com]
>> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 1997 5:05 PM
>> >To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
>> >Subject: Engine aka question
>> >
>> >I periodically see references to "B3", "MC", etc. Could someone cross
>> >reference these for me? Is the MC the I5, 10V? How about the B3?
>What's
>> >the V8 called? The I5/20V?
>> >
>> >Waiting to be enlightened.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Lynn Smith
>> >lynn@dvcorp.com
>> >
------------------------------
From: dmiller@iea.com (Doug Miller)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:36:57 -0800
Subject: Active suspension
>In a message dated 97-01-22 12:39:29 EST, you write:
>
><< Is this a TRUE active suspension? >>
>
>Not by your stated definition. My recollection is that it actively, and
>quickly, switches between two hydraulic circuits which control damping and
>spring rate. It is active in responding with spring and damping rates
>appropriate to changing road conditions, but it is still a passive victim of
>what ever the road throws at it.
Yes, that would be more likely for public consumption. *Nobody* has put a
true active suspension on the street for the consumer. A true active
suspension must be able to power the tire/wheel assemblies both up and down
with its own energy at high cycle rates. All the systems so far (many
labeled "active") are traditional suspensions that can vary the damping
rates (typically changing orifice sizes in the shock for different flow
resistance) and/or the spring rates (more complex and more expensive). The
Citroens could independently "lift a leg" for tire changing, but this was
not a system designed to interact with the road surface under way (puttin'
on the Nomex suit against flames ;-) ).
The amount of horsepower required to power such a system is pretty draining
for a typical car. The Active Corvette (Lotus technology used) I have
driven and worked with took over 30hp in steady state, and the computer
took up 50% of the available rear luggage space. A pretty severe penalty,
and it ensures that such a system would probably appear on a car with
plenty o'power.
Doug Miller
dmiller@iea.com
97A6Q Wagon, 93 LandCruiser w/diff locks (and well used skidplates), 71
LeMans Sport V8 Convertible.
------------------------------
From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:38:41 GMT
Subject: Boxter intro (was Re: 1992 Audi S4 electrical power drain)
In message <199701241751.JAA07917@ipecac.engr.sgi.com> steve@ipecac.engr.sgi.com (Steve Valin) writes:
> Every other dealer I've been to tries to get an addition $1k-2k above MSRP
> on the dumbest of cars from the stupidest of people...
Reasonable. They don't stand much chance with _smart_ people, do they?
And only the stupidest of people buy the dumbest cars ...
- --
Phil Payne
phil@sievers.com
Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
------------------------------
From: STEADIRIC@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:43:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Dead Horses
>And, as a final caution, if anyone tells you that Euros are _NOT_ as good
>as I
>say they are - make sure they know what they're talking about. There
>seems to
>be considerable confusion as to exactly _what_ a Euro headlight actually is.
Phil,
You hit the nail on the head!
Later!
Eric Fletcher S.O.C.
'87 5KCSTQIA2RSR2B
St. Louis, MO
STEADIRIC@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Andrew Duane USG/PE <duane@zk3.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:38:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What are my choices?
> In a message dated 97-01-24 12:52:07 EST, DRANCHAK@commgate.kirtland.af.mil
> (DRANCHAK) writes:
>
> << All 100/A6 wagons since 92 have offered the third seat.
> I thought that a manual trans was available some years but I might be
> wrong. >>
>
> You are correct about being wrong. In the U.S. market, all A6 wagons were,
> and are, automatic transmission only. As earlier noted in a response to the
> original poster's question, (and again, specific to the U.S. market) the only
> choice for a stick-shift, 7 passenger (5+2) quattro wagon from Audi is the
> model year 1995 S6 wagon.
Are you sure? I went over this with my dealer this summer, and he told
me that in about '95, they started making some A6QW's available with
stick shifts. How many actually made it over here? Who knows....
- --
Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7) duane@zk3.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation (603)-881-1294
110 Spit Brook Road
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH 03062-2698
Only my cat shares my opinions, and she's too heavy to care.
------------------------------
From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:55:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Oil Stuff
>Avi, I think you need to put out some technical details here and there to
>put some credibility behind your reply. What's viscosity modifiers (and
>other good stuffs they mix in with engine oil)? How long do they last in
>conventional oil? In synthetic oil?
I will, I will, I will.....
Give me a little time, I will try this to do a more comprehensive post
this weekend...
>What will Clinton do in the next 4 years?
Don't have the foggiest idea, it's probably the same as trying to predict
the next big earth quake (we Californians are very sensitive about that
subject!), you can come-up with all the scientific evidence you want but,
(I am still convinced) when the next big quake is going to happen, it is
still going to be a big surprise....
With great respect to all our esteemed list members (that was not a
"Barney", was it?)
Avi Meron
86 5Kcstq
I am not always the devil advocate, but never one to miss an
opportunity....
------------------------------
From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:00:41 -0800
Subject: Volvo AWD (Was: What are my choices?)
It'll be slush only in the 193hp and 220+hp versions :-( AWD or not,
they're only offering a manual transmission on the 168hp base models.
I can't believe nobody has picked up on the demand for the 91 200qw and
95 S6 wagons and started bringing in high performance wagons with stick
shifts. Volvo have the prefect opportunity now that Audi doesn't have
anything in that market and they have the models in Europe.
Can't wait for the A4 1.8T Quattro Avant.
- - peter
peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
91 200qw
94 acura legend gs
issaquah, wa, usa
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shaun Mullen [SMTP:smullen@philly.infi.net]
>Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 8:09 AM
>To: Duff, Ian
>Cc: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
>Subject: Re: What are my choices?
>
>Duff, Ian wrote:
>> . . . Audi is our first choice, however, she is also considering
>> one of those Swedish Bricks. Not a *bad* car, mind you, just no quattro.
>
>At the risk of committing q-list hersesy, note that the AWD Volvo wagon
>is skedded for late March-early April delivery in the states. I have
>heard it will be offered in a five-speed. I also have heard that it
>will only be offered with a slushbox. The missus might check your local
>Volvo dealer to see what kind of tranny is being offered.
------------------------------
From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:56:49 -0800
Subject: RE: V8 quattro, 200 quattro, 90 quattro, quattro coupe
The brakes you're talking about are called Infernal - uhm, InTernal -
Caliper Brakes (also known as UFO brakes) and have substantially larger
rotors than the non-q 91 200 and pre-91 cars. They also tend to warp for
some people, but opinions are divided on that issue. Mine have warped
twice (when I bought the car they were warped and they did so again in
10K miles) bug I'd still take them over the non-UFO brakes for a couple
of reasons: they're a good conversation piece and I've heard from
another lister with 275hp in his non-UFO 91 200q that it's now
underbraked. I don't think that will happen with the very large swept
area of the UFO brakes (any my new custom pads).
Have a look at my Web page for a little more info.
- - peter
peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
91 200qw
94 acura legend gs
issaquah, wa, usa
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Jundt [SMTP:mjundt@mr.net]
>Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 6:59 AM
>To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
>Subject: V8 quattro, 200 quattro, 90 quattro, quattro coupe
>
>I have owned an 86 5000TQ before that I bought with high mileage and ended
>up putting quite q bit of money into it. I am now looking at one of the
>following cars and was wondering if any one new of any problems I should
>look for on each of these models:
>90 or 91 200 Quattro
>90 or 91 20V 90 Quattro
>90 or 91 Quattro coupe
>90 V8 Quattro
>Also, I have noticed in some sale ads for the 200 and V8 that they
>sometimes say that the front brakes have been retrofitted back to the
>regular discs. I know on the V8 they came out with a new design that put
>the caliper in the "center" rather than on the outside of the rotor. Was
>there a problem with this design and is it a major expense or problem with
>the car?
>Thanks for any info any of you can share!
>
------------------------------
From: Richard Lebens <rlebens@mdc.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:30:44 -0600
Subject: obd
I#m still searching for a scanner to read the diagnostic codes out of the 91 90 Quattro
20V. What does everyone do, just give the dealer the flat rate 70 bucks to do
computer diagnostics. This car doesn#t have a maintenance indicator light so if you
suspect something is wrong with engine management you take a shot(s) in the dark or
go to the dealer to who tells you nothing is wrong or it#s an intermittent fault. Is the
interface the SAE j1850 serial bus. Searching the diy-efi list archive didn#t do much
good either.
------------------------------
From: ScharfR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:06:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Volvo AWD - Sticks or not?
In a message dated 97-01-24 14:14:11 EST, peterhe@microsoft.com (Peter
Henriksen) writes, regarding the higher hp new Volvo products:
<< It'll be slush only in the 193hp and 220+hp versions :-( AWD or not,
they're only offering a manual transmission on the 168hp base models. >>
Not entirely so. Your information is valid only for the current 1997 model
year. Things will reportedly be different with the new cars. During their
press conference at the recent Los Angeles, the Volvo folks confirmed that
the new C70/V70/S70 will come with manual transmission versions as well as
automatics. Not all flavors will be available at the initial launch of the
new products (beginning early in the second quarter of this year) but there
will definitely be sticks on the high hp versions of the new cars.
<< I can't believe nobody has picked up on the demand for the 91 200qw
and 95 S6 wagons and started bringing in high performance wagons
with stick shifts. Volvo have the prefect opportunity now that Audi
doesn't have anything in that market and they have the models in
Europe. >>
As noted above, the Volvo boys will be looking to meet some of that demand.
And although it isn't going to come with a stick, Mercedes-Benz will be
offering a new E320 wagon with all wheel drive in the U.S. in the Fall. It
will also include their new V6 (replacing the inline 6) and a standard
equipment "way-back" seat for 7 passenger capacity.
------------------------------
From: Peter Henriksen <peterhe@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:05:32 -0800
Subject: RE: obd
$70 is a complete rip-off for something that takes 5min.
There are unfortunately not many others (than dealers) who have the
computer to do it. I know Ned Ritchie has one and AVS in Chehalis, WA
should have one as well. If you're not close...
Ned Ritchie once told me that if a dealer charges you whatever their
smallest unit of labour is (typically 1/2 hour), require them to do
something useful to your car for the other 25 or 55 minutes :-)
- - peter
peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
91 200qw
94 acura legend gs
issaquah, wa, usa
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Lebens [SMTP:rlebens@mdc.com]
>Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 11:31 AM
>To: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
>Subject: obd
>
>I#m still searching for a scanner to read the diagnostic codes out of the 91
>90 Quattro
>20V. What does everyone do, just give the dealer the flat rate 70 bucks to
>do
>computer diagnostics. This car doesn#t have a maintenance indicator light so
>if you
>suspect something is wrong with engine management you take a shot(s) in the
>dark or
>go to the dealer to who tells you nothing is wrong or it#s an intermittent
>fault. Is the
>interface the SAE j1850 serial bus. Searching the diy-efi list archive
>didn#t do much
>good either.
>
>
------------------------------
From: ScharfR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:12:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A6 Wagons = No sticks (in U.S.)
In a message dated 97-01-24ScharfR@aol.com writes:
<< In the U.S. market, all A6 wagons were,
> and are, automatic transmission only. As earlier noted in a response to
the
> original poster's question, (and again, specific to the U.S. market) the
only
> choice for a stick-shift, 7 passenger (5+2) quattro wagon from Audi is the
> model year 1995 S6 wagon.
To which, in a message dated 97-01-24 13:50:13 EST, duane@zk3.dec.com
(Andrew Duane USG/PE) queries:
< Are you sure? I went over this with my dealer this summer, and he told
me that in about '95, they started making some A6QW's available with
stick shifts. How many actually made it over here? Who knows.... >>
To which I reply, "I know, exactly none." Stick A6 wagons (whether front
drive or quattro) were never certified or imported to the U.S.
------------------------------
From: Alexei M Voloshin <Alexei.M.Voloshin-1@tc.umn.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:28:43 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Volvo AWD (Was: What are my choices?)
According to a Russian auto newspaper test - 850 AWD smoked the new A6 Q
in adverse weather handling test. They got a great picture of an A6 Q
taking a sharp turn and with both of its inside wheels in the air. The
test was conducted in Switzerland and Spain.
Hmmm... those guys are usually pretty good, but I wonder whether this
time...
Alex
On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Peter Henriksen wrote:
> It'll be slush only in the 193hp and 220+hp versions :-( AWD or not,
> they're only offering a manual transmission on the 168hp base models.
>
> I can't believe nobody has picked up on the demand for the 91 200qw and
> 95 S6 wagons and started bringing in high performance wagons with stick
> shifts. Volvo have the prefect opportunity now that Audi doesn't have
> anything in that market and they have the models in Europe.
>
> Can't wait for the A4 1.8T Quattro Avant.
> - peter
> peterhe@microsoft.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001
> 91 200qw
> 94 acura legend gs
> issaquah, wa, usa
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Shaun Mullen [SMTP:smullen@philly.infi.net]
> >Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 8:09 AM
> >To: Duff, Ian
> >Cc: quattro@coimbra.ans.net
> >Subject: Re: What are my choices?
> >
> >Duff, Ian wrote:
> >> . . . Audi is our first choice, however, she is also considering
> >> one of those Swedish Bricks. Not a *bad* car, mind you, just no quattro.
> >
> >At the risk of committing q-list hersesy, note that the AWD Volvo wagon
> >is skedded for late March-early April delivery in the states. I have
> >heard it will be offered in a five-speed. I also have heard that it
> >will only be offered with a slushbox. The missus might check your local
> >Volvo dealer to see what kind of tranny is being offered.
>
------------------------------
End of quattro-digest V4 #156
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