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quattro-digest V4 #348



Mail*LinkŪ SMTP               quattro-digest V4 #348


quattro-digest           Tuesday, 25 February 1997     Volume 04 : Number 348

*
*  Welcome to the digest version of the quattro list.
*  See the end of the digest for unsubscribe info.
*  In this issue:
Re: What's up with MB?
Re: Redwood tree across hwy17-(Bay Area)
Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? very very long,,,,,,,,,
Re: Mobil 1(and vac. leak)
Re: Avi's stubborn refusal to believe
Audi-Fest '97/Pike's Peak Info on-line
Re: Consumer Reports
Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 
Recent threads and MHOs
Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 
Re: Consumer Reports
Re: What's up with MB?
Replacing 96 A4 armrests....
RE: Replacing 96 A4 armrests....
Mobil 1
Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 
What's up with MB?
Re: Consumer Reports
Re: Tail-gating
Re: Torque Wrench Extension
Re: error
1986 5ktq for sale

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jmonetti@us.net (Jonathan Monetti)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:38:24
Subject: Re: What's up with MB?

I agree, the obscurity factor makes certain we can enjoy an Audi in relative peace 
(unless you just can't resist that great straightaway...)
  
BUT, I happen to enjoy the MB commercials, and fact is MB is doing GREAT.  Notice 
they've been introducing a car every 6-8 months the last several years, and people are 
lining up to buy them!  And they're doing the best they can to advertise a sportier, 
younger image--and their sport sedans and the Kompressor car attest to this being a 
trend. 

I agree VW never seemed to advertise enough--remember those EXCELLENT GTI  
(A1) commercials, with a GTI ripping around a desert track with a Beach-Boys type tune 
being sung in German?  Jeez, I think I was twelve and I wanted one BAD.

Jonathan Monetti
86 Coupe GT, 82k
                      
_____________

If you ever see me in a Honda, for God sakes, shoot me."
_____________



Jonathan Monetti
86 Coupe GT, 82k
                      
_____________

If you ever see me in a Honda, for God sakes, shoot me."
_____________


------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:24:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Redwood tree across hwy17-(Bay Area)

>Instead I
>find myslef wondering If I should take the scenic route home.
can't your Q fly over the obstacle?.....
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:58:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? very very long,,,,,,,,,

> There is nothing I can do to change your mind about using synthetics and
I
> agree "they have there place" but, in most cases they are not needed, the
> quality of oil today is extremely high

>>>>>>>>Agree totally.<<<<<<<<<<<
if you agree, what are we arguing about???????  that synthetic oil is
better? in some things yes, in others no, 
Why is it, that everybody gets so worked up? Is anybody tested synthetic
oils extensively?????? I doubt it, why do I get none stops quotes and
"papers" etc.?????? I read many SAE papers, so....... that did not change
the results of the tests we did...
you don't believe me? thats OK you don't have to, I merely trying to give
you an extra bit of information that you will not get otherwise.... I am
not trying to CONVERT anybody...do what you want.... 
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:10:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Mobil 1(and vac. leak)

>For the record, I use Mobil 1.  I would like to see some fleet wear test
>results, though.
You won't.... many fleet users DO NOT like synthetics (too much oil
consumption on diesels). The other issue is that fleet users (if they use
Mobil) will use Delvac 1 which is synthetic but formulated somewhat
different than Mobil 1.
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:41:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Avi's stubborn refusal to believe

>ASTM standards
>(the only standards that are worth a damn)
no SAE std.?
no ISO std. ?
no TUV std. ?
no JIS std. ?
no GM std. ?
no FORD std.?
etc. etc. etc.
All bad?????
Avi Meron 

------------------------------

From: Jim Griffin <JGriff@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:06:48 -0500
Subject: Audi-Fest '97/Pike's Peak Info on-line

FYI,

I just posted up some detailed info about the Pike's Peak event. It can be
linked off the Audi-Fest '97 page
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475/AudiFest.html) or by going directly to:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475/ppeak.html

Thanks to our friends Erin Schreiberg and Bob Cotton out in Colorado for
providing the info!!

                             Jim Griffin
                      JGriff@pobox.com
  http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4475
                        Maryland, USA
   "Perception is often stronger than reality!"
                               '92 100S
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~OOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:24:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Consumer Reports

>CU has tested all of these things and has
>arrived at a 'best buy.'  Did you buy your Quattro because CU said it was
an
>example of superb engineering, fun to drive and that you would just simply
like
>it?  
for your information (I did not get to you in time to stop your spiel..) CU
rated the Audi 5K as one of the best cars (sometime during the early 80, if
memory serves me right), now what did you say????? 
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Psychotic Don't-you-dare-tickle-me Elmo" <honge@creighton.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:22:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 

>>So, how would you explain the results - scientifically, not using 
>>abstract hand-waving arguments?

>Not much to say to you Alex, you are pretty well set in your "beliefs" so
>stick to them..... whatever they are, I said what had to be said and as
>soon as I think of something else I'll be happy to share it with you and
>list, 

Donno, Avi. Without single shred of data to back you up, you seems to deep
in your belief in anti-synth, too. Without data, everything is just a
hunch. I think you need to do some work in the persuasion department, too.

- ------------- clip here with virtual scissors --------------
************************************************************
Send any interesting roadkills to honge@creighton.edu!
Keyboard stuck error. Press F1 to continue.
Fax (402) 593-8975
Just say "Your lights are on" to DRLs
************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Allan Jones <ampj@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:26:19 -0500
Subject: Recent threads and MHOs

Synthetics: I use 'em and my engine likes it! As a matter of fact,(Audi
content coming up) I'm thinking about entering my I5 in the search for a
new Mickey.(No I don't pour Life into my valve cover - it was a play on
words)

Cats: Dont' like 'em - they're more selfish than I am. That's bad.
Wouldn't kill one. Though I did shave one's whiskers in college - pretty
funny.

Consumer Reports Mag: Absolutely SUCKS. Wouldn't buy one - they appeal
to old farts and idiots. Not a specific mag AT ALL!

U.S.A.: My girl and I think this country's going to self-destruct very
soon. I have no long and articulate speech, just think this is beginning
to blow.

		Jeez, now that I think about it, this list could be the reason I'm
depressed!;)   I know I too contribute to these threads, but if we all
try, we can beat this addiction!
							Allan

------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:04:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 

>Donno, Avi. Without single shred of data to back you up, you seems to deep
>in your belief in anti-synth, too. Without data, everything is just a
>hunch. I think you need to do some work in the persuasion department, too.
What data do you want? the test report, the hourly log? the oil analysis? 
I am not Simpson you know......
Nomex on....
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:12:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Consumer Reports

>You are dead wrong on that,  They have a huge, dedicated, and well
equipped
>test facility in Connecticut. The place is staffed by capable engineers,
many
>with OE experience.  Their facility is the envy of any and all of the
>"enthusiast" style car magazines.  In fact it is bigger, better equipped
and
>better staffed than the test facilities of quite a few import car brands
on
>sale in the U.S.
bingo, right on target......
>But I have never
>been able to fault their research - and you can bet that many companies
have
>tried (Chrysler, Suzuki, Isuzu, etc).  Bottom line, don't ignore good
data,
>just come to your own conclusions.
another bull's eye, instead of bashing none stop, lets listen a bit, and
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION......
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: Bruce Kaye <bruce.kaye@edrd.dnd.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:15:13 -0800
Subject: Re: What's up with MB?

At 17:38 24/02/97 -0800, Jonathan Monetti wrote:

>I agree VW never seemed to advertise enough--remember those EXCELLENT GTI  
>(A1) commercials, with a GTI ripping around a desert track with a
Beach-Boys type tune 
>being sung in German?  Jeez, I think I was twelve and I wanted one BAD.
>
Recent Audi ad 

The A4 Turbo - The One German Sport Car you can Afford while your spare
tire is in your trunk - not around your waist....
Bruce 

87 5000 CD TQW  
86 5000 S  Avant 
75 TR6 (stored for too long)
83 GPZ 1100 (in pieces)

------------------------------

From: "Ali A. Bukhari" <aab1@acpub.duke.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:16:10 -0500
Subject: Replacing 96 A4 armrests....

I'm not sure if everyone got to see this with all
of the garbage that's been in the last few digests,
so here it is again.
- --------- 

I really hate the fact that the armrests on my 96
A4 are cloth. I guess Audi did too since the 97s 
have leather armrests (2.8s at least). 

I was just wondering if it is possible to replace
my 96 cloth armrests (the 4 on the doors and maybe
also the top of the center armrest between the driver
and passenger) with the 97 leather variety through a
simple swap. What I'm trying to say is, if I ordered
97 A4 leather armrest consoles, would they fit onto 
my 96 A4 with no hassles? Did Audi change the design
of the armrests at all for 97 (besides obviously making
them leather).

Anyone have any thoughts on this or, possibly, a better
replacement for the cloth armrests (yech!)?

Any comments/help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ali.
- ---- 

------------------------------

From: "Ali A. Bukhari" <aab1@acpub.duke.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:20:29 -0500
Subject: RE: Replacing 96 A4 armrests....

I spoke with my dealer, and he told me that it wouldn't be
a problem. Quoted me a cost of about $90 per leather armrest.
I better ask him again to make sure about the problems that
you pointed out to me. I'm not sure if he actually checked on
compatibility issues, or if he just looked up a price from
the parts department. 

I'll have to look into it further.

Thanks for the info.

Ali.
- ----

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Carlos Rodriguez [SMTP:carluis@ix.netcom.com]
Sent:	Monday, February 24, 1997 5:36 PM
To:	Ali A. Bukhari; 'quattro@coimbra.ans.net'
Subject:	Re: Replacing 96 A4 armrests....

I have The same problem and I asked the dealer about it well the dealer
reccomended a man to tailor it in for me though they tell me that yo have
to buy the whole door panel and audi does not sell just the armrests alone.
This costs a lot of money if you are changing the whole door panel. Also
they told me that the panels were stuck to the armrests through melting
plastic which is hard to put back on exactly. I think the best solution is
to buy the leather from audi by the yard and/or go to a good place where
they put leather kits on cars and have them install the leather. Though
make sure they have seen what the new ones look like and ask if they have
done the job before. The man I was reccomended to was going to charge me
475 for the four doors and the armrest I found it too expensive so I
cleaned it good and bought a scotchguard 3M spray. If anyone has a word in
Audi of America tell them to make a kit for upgrading this part cheaply. 

Thanx Carlos R.


------------------------------

From: "Meron" <phwomp@cosmoslink.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:56:38 -0800
Subject: Mobil 1

to all my dear friends who like Mobil :
A better synthetic (made by Mobil) is Delvac 1, designed for fleet users
and heavy duty applications.
Delvac 1 can be obtained at Mobil distributors and places who cater to
trucks (some time you can find it at big truck stops), comes in a gallon
container (or 55 gallon drums) only and I think is cheaper that Mobil 1 ,
Avi Meron

------------------------------

From: "Psychotic Don't-you-dare-tickle-me Elmo" <honge@creighton.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:51:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Synthoil AGAIN?? not long... 

>What data do you want? the test report, the hourly log? the oil analysis? 

Well, people don't just publish their conclusions in journals, you know.
The data is important because people may have different conclusions from
yours even though it may be the same data. Without data to backup your
claims/conclusions, I bet the original "Bob" Myers would say it's science
fiction.

As for aother separate post... I'd have to say you're trying to persuade/
convert people. Are you trying to supply more information? Not in my eye.
There weren't anything to backup your conclusion. Thus, they were your
opinion and belief.

So post all you got! If the data support your conclusion, what do you have
to lose? I don't think Dan would mind (huh? Dan? Huh?). This ain't BMW or
MB list, Avi. Most of us don't assume much, and don't give easily to
hypes.

>I am not Simpson you know......

??? Well, Simpson had mucho money to bail himself out. Too bad all the
scientific evidence points him as the major suspect.

- ------------- clip here with virtual scissors --------------
************************************************************
Send any interesting roadkills to honge@creighton.edu!
Keyboard stuck error. Press F1 to continue.
Fax (402) 593-8975
Just say "Your lights are on" to DRLs
************************************************************


------------------------------

From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:47:44 GMT
Subject: What's up with MB?

In message <199702250638.BAA00834@us.net> jmonetti@us.net (Jonathan Monetti) writes:

> I agree VW never seemed to advertise enough--remember those EXCELLENT GTI  
> (A1) commercials, with a GTI ripping around a desert track with a Beach-Boys type tune 
> being sung in German?  Jeez, I think I was twelve and I wanted one BAD.

Do you guys not get the Golf VR6 "Chinese gambler" ads?

- --
 Phil Payne
 phil@sievers.com
 Committee Member, UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club

------------------------------

From: "Psychotic Don't-you-dare-tickle-me Elmo" <honge@creighton.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:01:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Consumer Reports

>tried (Chrysler, Suzuki, Isuzu, etc).  Bottom line, don't ignore good data,
>just come to your own conclusions.

Good data shouldn't be ignored. But we also have to look out for bad data
- -- data that are selectively picked to get certain conclusion. Politicians
do it. Cops do it. Our gov't does it. Famous people did it (Remember
Mendel, the famous genetics discoverer? Well, his data is not ALL that
honest...).

And Avi, don't get funny idea 'bout this. We university people know what
to look for, because we've BTDT. (^:

- ------------- clip here with virtual scissors --------------
************************************************************
Send any interesting roadkills to honge@creighton.edu!
Keyboard stuck error. Press F1 to continue.
Fax (402) 593-8975
Just say "Your lights are on" to DRLs
************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Allan Jones <ampj@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:58:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Tail-gating

> > Do they ever pull over the *following* car instead of the first one?
> 
> They do in the UK.  The argument is that if you weren't held up by the guy in
> front, you'd be going _EVEN_FASTER_!

	Happened to me(128 North) but Mass. trooper was nice. He told me that
he pulled me over before the person in front of me moved aside in order
to save me a major speeding ticket. Seems he knew exactly that - that
I'd be going EVEN_FASTER_! - and let me go w/ a warning! They're not all
bad!
					Allan(just 99.9% of em' ;)

------------------------------

From: paul.heneghan@bbc.co.uk (Paul Heneghan)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:01:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Torque Wrench Extension

From: quk@sievers.com (Phil Payne)

>>This
>> works out to give you about 430ftlbs at the nut which is way outside the
>> range of most torque meters.

>The principle's right, but the maths is wrong.

>332 ft lbs at the nut.

We are obviously using different maths!  Here is my working (with my 
assumptions).

Torque = Force x Distance.

Manual says torque should be an indicated 258ftlbs (first assumption - I 
have seen some other figures mentioned, but this seems to be the most 
popular).

This torque is developed at the 1/2" square drive of the torque wrench.

Torque wrench is 1.5ft long (second assumption - many DIY TWs are this 
length, mine is slightly longer  - I don't know what the VAG one is.  This 
is a flaw in the maths of the person who thought up this way of specifying 
the torque - it depends entirely on the length of the TW which is not a 
constant).

To generate 258 ftlbs of torque, I am leaning with 172lbs force on the 
handle of the TW.  (172 x 1.5 = 258).

The torque developed at the crankshaft bolt is 172 x ( new length).  In this 
case, the new length is the length of the TW plus the length of the 
extension (part no. 2079).

I have been told the extension is 1ft long (third assumption - I've never 
seen one of these, but rumour has it that they are about 12" long and the 
pictures in the manuals seem to go along with this).

Torque at bolt = 172 x (1.5 + 1) = 430ftlbs.  QED

The only way your figure of 332ftlbs can be true is if the extension only 
adds 28% to the length of the TW.  This would give a TW which is 3.5ft long!

The longest TW I have seen is about 2ft long.  If VAG had meant this length 
to be used, then the torque multiplication factor would have been 3/2 which 
would give 387ftlbs at the bolt.

I think >400ftlbs is safe.

If anyone can spot a flaw in my maths, let me know!

(BTW, for the benefit of our American friends, VAG stands for Volkswagon 
Audi Group - one of the names of the Audi dealership over the years, 
probably similar to AoA)

Paul
paul.heneghan@bbc.co.uk
1984 Audi 80 quattro
1989 Audi 100 Avant


------------------------------

From: "Bart Chambers"  <bartonc@annap.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 06:48:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: error

In message <199702250007.SAA27052@home.dwave.net> Pat Washburn writes:

Hey Herr Listmeister,

Could we please have a little relief here?  The lovely Pat Washburn seems to be 
having fun mail-bombing us.  Either that, or s/he wants badly to participate.

Pity s/he has nothing to say...then again, perhaps it's just as well...

Anyway, Yer Kindly Ol' Unka Bart, to name but one, would appreciate it if this 
nonsense would stop.  Perhaps you could yank his account and his *postmaster* 
could have a little chat with him about abusing his account like this.



------------------------------

From: Contsbi@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:02:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 1986 5ktq for sale

I have decided to sell my quattro in hopes of buying another.  Car is in
reasonable shape interior and exterior.  The car has 145k, I have owned it
since 63k regular oil changes with Mobil 1 and Audi filters. Recent
mechanical work includes Pts,plug wires fuel filter, radiator, fuel pump
front tierod end.  Needs brake work and rear bushings, sunroof and windows.
 The car has a Sachs sport suspension with about 35k and TSW evo 15x7 wheel
with Dunlop v rated tires. 

Bob
Hingham, MA
617-740-2285



------------------------------

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