Re: [conversion for 4kq to mc turbo(very long)]

[Joe Rae <audi-quattro@usa.net>]

Pat,

    You forgot the part about where you find a bunch of people to help you do the stuff that you do not want to to, and while you are at it you can also give those people as much shit as you can muster up!

later 
Joe 



> I am going to try to get into as technical of post that I can regarding my 4kq 
> mc conversion project.  This project is not for the faint of heart.  It does 
> require some cutting of body parts (and I don't only mean the car), 
> fabrication of many custom brackets,  Bentleys for a 4kq and 5kt, and time.  
> In my case 5 months but I could see it done in 2 knowing what I know now.  I 
> did scrap the ac as it needed repair and is some weight.  I have not got an 
> intercooler yet but am planning on having a custom one built for the grill 
> area.  I have been told not to have one in front of the radiator.  I have not 
> yet completely figured out an oil cooler yet but am planning on an aftermarket 
> with custom hoses.  And I am also planning a rebuilt radiator although so far 
> no cooling problems.  Trip computer is gone and probably not going to happen 
> in my lifetime.  For brakes I am going to wait and see.  I have never had 
> brake problems with the 4kq brakes as long as I keep the fluid fresh.  If I 
> find I need more I will probably do the g-60 set up.
> 
> I have driven it on the track and the temps were all good and the car ran 
> beautifully.  I have clocked a 0-60 time of 6 seconds with just spring 
> controlled wastegate.  I am tracing some minor electrical maladies but 
> otherwise the car has been great.  So here is the step by step process that I 
> went through.  I am leaving out a lot of what we did as there is just too much 
> to remember but it is fairly complete.  I really suggest that you replace 
> anything that needs replacing at this time.  While the car is down and you are 
> knee deep in this project you will want to do anything that is easier while 
> the car is down.  For example any bushings that are needed should be done.  
> Remember you are going to have a few extra horses that will put extra stresses 
> on most everything.
> 
> Step 1:  Find a large water body just deep enough to drive your car in up to 
> the airbox.  Run the car in said water until engine seizes.  This step can be 
> skipped if single however is required if married.  This engine killing 
> exercise ensures the proper excuse to undertake this large and expensive task. 
>  I did not completely succeed in this task though as the motor was not damaged 
> by this process.  Solution :  Deeper water.
> 
> Step 2:  If you do not have access to garage, find some poor sucker to let you 
> use his.  Tell him it should only take 2-3 months and you will spend every 
> evening there till it is done.  This is of course a lie but he won't know till 
> the end anyway and by then he has given up all hope of ever getting a clean 
> garage.  VERY IMPORTANT.  Make sure your poor sucker has plenty of good tools. 
>  Not just basic hand tools but drills, jig saws, torch, press, many 
> jackstands, good quality jack, and most important, most crucial, liquid 
> mechanic.  Do not however pay anything for the use of this garrage as it will 
> set a bad precedence.  
> 
> Step 3: Find suitable 5kt or other 86+ turbo motor preferably in car.  The 
> reason it is good to get it in a car is because you can see how everything fit 
> as well as being able to sell parts to recoup some of your investment.  The 
> best car is a 5000t because it uses a lot of the same parts that a 4kq uses so 
> you can scavenge.  86+ are good because it is the water cooled turbo and more 
> advanced computer.  I bought the front half of an 86 5kt for $860 with about 
> 115k miles.  I figured I can recoup about half of the cost of the motor.  
> 
> Step 4: Stare at the cars and wonder what the hell you are going to do.  After 
> this, maybe take some pictures for posterity and some close-ups so that if you 
> really get confused about where this or that was.  Then start marking ALL the 
> wires and hoses and removing them from their respective places.  Since you 
> will not need the radiator that should be where you start.  You might also 
> might want to remove the air conditioning system since you will not be needing 
> it and it has good $ value for used stuff.  Also mark tdc in several spots.  I 
> found the mark on the crankshaft pulley to be incorrect on my donor car.  Mark 
> pulley and cam sprocket so that you will know how to install the cam belt 
> without the flywheel.  
> 
> Step 5: Remove the dash of the donor car.  It makes it much easier to get the 
> wiring harness out of the car and you probably want to sell some parts under 
> it anyway.  This is actually a pretty difficult job if you don't want to break 
> anything.  Remove all harnesses as the connectors will come in handy later.  
> You also never know what fellow q heads may want.  You may want to mark where 
> EVERYTHING came from so if you do not know what it is later you will at least 
> know where it was. Be careful with the transmission linkage and all the 
> quattro vacuum lines
> > on top of the transmission. I suggest removing harnesses with the engine in 
> the car as this will assure that you did not forget to disconnect something.  
> 
> Step 6:  Remove engine.  Nuff said.
> 
> Step 7:  I chose to do a poor mans rebuild.  I did all gaskets, water pump, 
> timing belt, head job(no, not what your thinking), injectors serviced, tune 
> up, and many other little things I chose not to remember.  Please do not buy 
> Audi manifold studs.  I broke 3 of these pieces of crap while trying to torque 
> to the proper specs.  Try to find something that actually has some strength.  
> We thoroughly cleaned the motor, painted all parts that needed it, and 
> replaced any suspect nuts or bolts.  If your donor car is an automatic than 
> you will need to get a flywheel and clutch.  These should be from a 5ktq.  You 
> will also need to remove the automatic pilot bearing.  You will need a slide 
> hammer.  VERY IMPORTANT:   Keep all screws, brackets, wire ties, and anything 
> else, especially if it looks useless because most likely it will turn into 
> your best friend later on.  Keep the cutting dikes in the box at this point.  
> Do not cut anything.
> 
> 
> Step 8: Once donor engine is ready prepare your car for engine removal.  
> Remove rf tie rod as it will have to be either bent or you will have to buy a 
> ur-q rod.   If you buy the ur-q rod you will have to modify the 4kq strut to 
> make it fit.  I chose to send mine to 2 Bennett in CA to have them bend it.   
> It is only a slight bend and they have done it for years with no problems. I 
> suggest marking everything also since you will use some of the 4kq wiring.  Do 
> not cut anything.  Assume nothing.   I suggest removing the interior and dash 
> although this is not required.  I removed it so I did not spend a month on my 
> back.  It is not that hard on  the 4kq and goes fairly quickly.  This also 
> gave me a chance to rewire some things that I have always wanted to do.  For 
> those of you that hate the cool air "feature" of the center vent this also 
> gives you the opportunity to fix it.  Huw Powell has an excellent post on this 
> procedure in the archives.  I like the cool center vent so I left mine alone.  
> Before removing any wires mark them because you do not want to spend a week 
> trying to identify basic 4k components.  
> 
> Step 9:  Remove engine/transmission.  It is easiest to drop the engine out the 
> bottom.  Just remove the subframe and viola the engine is ready to drop.  
> Remove all linkages, hoses, fuel lines and anything else that could get 
> damaged.  Do this slowly as you will likely forget something and you will 
> prefer to take your time.
> 
> Step 10: Clean, clean, clean.  10-15 years of road grime is accumulated in 
> every nook and cranny.  Hopefully you will not be removing the engine anytime 
> soon so why accumulate more.  It also makes putting the new motor in somewhat 
> cleaner. Remove anything that might get in your way.  
> 
> Step 11: Remove battery tray.  If you get it out cleanly enough you can use 
> the tray to mount the battery in the rear.  I mounted mine in the farthest 
> right rear corner of the trunk down in the well.  This uses very little trunk 
> room.  It also allows you to use the stock mounting bracket. This can be 
> welded > in but I chose to mount it with screws at three locations. Run a 2 
> ott welding wire from the trunk to the front of the car.  Use a standard 
> terminal on the rear fitting and get a press on eye fitting for connecting it 
> to the jumper block.  If you run it carefully, no one will ever know it was 
> there.  If you were diligent when disassembling the donor than you will have 
> the jumper post and can mount that where the battery was.  This is your 
> connection point for the starter circuit, fuse panel power, and alternator.  
> Put it about 4" to the drivers side of the strut mount. I spaced it off the 
> firewall with some 1/2" spacers.  
> 
> Step 12:  Join new engine with old transmission.  This is not any different 
> than the usual. I suggest replacing the shift mounts and clutch slave cylinder 
> while you are there.  Replace any bolts that are self locking as suggested by 
> the Bentley.  Also make sure you use a good torque wrench and torque them to 
> proper specs.   It also might be a good idea to fit the mounts to the new 
> engine.  Use the 4kq mounts and brackets.  You will need the alternator 
> bracket from the 5kt which has the front damper on it.  I chose to use the 4kq 
> alternator and mounting apparatus.  It may be easier to mount this at this 
> time.  
> 
> Step 13:  I chose to put the engine before doing the wiring.  The only thing I 
> would maybe do is resolve the left side harness issue before fitting the 
> engine.  The right side is definitely a wait until the engine is in.  The left 
> harness on the 4kq does not have some of the cooling system wiring you may 
> need.  I do not have my diagrams in front of me but as I remember there were 
> some issues regarding after run equipment which are not on the 4kq harness.  
> You also have the multifunction sensor on that side that you may want to keep. 
>  Just work on that side for now since the right side is easy and poses no such 
> issues.  If you decide to use the 5kt harness you will also need some of the 
> 4kq stuff.  I ran them both through the firewall.  While this created a mess 
> inside the car it gave me everything I could possibly need.  They will fit 
> through the stock hole in the firewall.  No mods needed here.  For specific 
> wiring questions please ask me specific questions as it would be hard to 
> remember it all at once.  Install the left side harness before the engine is 
> installed.   
> 
> Step 13:  Figure out what you are going to do about the airbox.  This is a 
> major PAIN IN THE ASS.  The easiest thing to do would be to get a urq airbox 
> assembly and install the 5kt fuel distributor on top.  But to do this there 
> are some hose routing issues and temperature things to consider.  I chose to 
> use as much of the 5kt system as possible.  I cut the 4kq airbox at the bottom 
> leaving about 2-3" and an open bottom.  Then mount the 5kt distributor to the 
> 4kq airbox top.  I then cut the inner fender away so that I could mount the 
> box inside the inner fender just in front of the wheel well liner.  This 
> allowed me to use the 5kt intake boot and make a steel pipe to run from that 
> to the turbo intake boot.  There is a temperature issue but I resolved this 
> with some aluminum tape and some good ducting.  For specifics regarding where 
> to cut the inner fender email me.   Make some brackets and mount the airbox 
> bottom to the frame as a permanent fixture.  Do use rubber washers to dampen 
> distributor noise.  This is very difficult to do without the engine in the car 
> but it is even harder with it in.  You would be wise to have this figured out 
> before starting the project.  I did not.  When you get the airbox bottom set 
> remove the top and set it aside for the engine install.  
> 
> Step 14:  Install engine.  If you have 2 people and a good floor jack you 
> should be able to do it without a hoist.  Get the car up high on jack stands 
> and set engine/transmission assembly on jack.  Roll jack under car and raise 
> to install.  
> 
> Step 15: Install heatshield on rf motormount.  This will need to be 
> fabricated.  Also start routing hoses.  Install radiator.  Since I used the 
> stock 4kq radiator I used the 4kq lower hose with the 4kq motor flange.  For 
> the upper I used a 4kq hose cut in half.  The radiator half I used the 5kt 
> line with the t for the after run pump. I spliced the 2 together with a heavy 
> flange.  For the main line that goes to the heater core we cut the 5kt pipe 
> and put a t in to accommodate the pump.  The heater hoses stayed the same with 
> just a little trim to match everything up.  I used the stock 5kt pump mount 
> and cut it to mount on the fan shroud.  Just trim the hose a little as it is 
> too long.  Very clean and functional.   For the downpipe with mine it fit just 
> fine.  I did shim the mount up about 1/4" to gain a little extra clearance.  
> 
> Step 16: Start the wiring process. The outside stuff is pretty self 
> explanatory.  As for the inside stuff it just takes patience and a good 
> knowledge of how to read a wiring diagram.  The fuse boxes are identical so 
> there is no need to replace the 4kq's.  It also helps to have the 5kt fuse box 
> in tact for identifying posts.  Basically I replaced the fuel pump relay with 
> the 5kt's and simply spliced wires into the proper posts.  Not very scientific 
> but it all worked well.  I also went ahead and used a couple of the 5kt wiring 
> blocks to facilitate any later modifications.  For specific information just 
> post me with specific questions and I will try my best to remember.  The only 
> outside stuff that can pose a problem is the after run fan and coolant pump.  
> Since I kept the 4kq harness in and left the radiator circuit in tact I just 
> used a relay system to run the pump whenever the fan cam on and the ignition 
> is off.  And instead of the way high 130c temp switch the 5kt uses to run the 
> after run I put a 170f thermodisc on the wastegate heat shield.  It runs only 
> when the car is really hot and then shuts off in about 3-5 minutes.  Even if 
> it gets really hot the stock 4kq after run relay has a 10 minute timer.  Use 
> the same wires the 4kq used for its after run switch.  For a knock sensor 
> light I simply used a seat belt warning bulb socket to wire it in.  Then I 
> snapped that into the check engine light.  For the injector cooling fan 
> everything stayed with the stock 5kt system.  I mounted the fan in front of 
> the radiator just below the headlight.  I then ran a hose from that to the 
> plenum.  For the air intake sensor we drilled a hole in the boss on the top of 
> the intake and installed it there.  The coil mounted right next to where the 
> battery box was.  You can use the existing bolts that are there.  To get extra 
> room under that I had to remove one of the 3 plugs that mounts with the coil.  
> I tried to use the 4kq oil pressure control unit but for some reason could not 
> get anything except the low pressure switch to work.  I will be running an oil 
> pressure gauge so that will not be that important anyway.
> 
> Step 17:  Have the custom hoses made or weld the intake tubes yourself.  Then 
> the exhaust connection will have to be addressed.  I simply had a connector 
> pipe made from the 5kt downpipe just below the y to the 4kq cat.   
> 
> Step 18: Once the plumbing is done install some type of boost gauge. I used an 
> Autometer on the a pillar just above the lf speaker.  Then you need to address 
> the throttle cable.  I used a 5ktq cable.  It is really not the best cable for 
> this.   It is a little long and this cable is not compatible with the 4kq 
> pedal.  I had to fabricate a ring and crimp on a ball for the engine 
> compartment.  Just good old fashioned fabrication. If > you can get a throttle 
> mechanism from a 5 speed car you may be able to hook it > up like stock at the 
> engine side. So far it works great.  
> 
> Step 19:  Start the car.  Notice I did not say to put the dash in.  This is so 
> you can trace down any electrical problems easier than standing on your head.  
> Make sure all your timing marks line up and apply power.  If you did 
> everything right  it should start quickly.  If not it won't.  Run it and watch 
> closely for any smoke or hot spots.  Run the car and see if all the gauges 
> work and if all the fans come on.   Change the oil frequently for the 1st few 
> changes as you want to flush that engine out.
> 
> Step 20:  Reinstall interior and trace down any niggling problems.  Without 
> the ac in it was easy to put the computer in that space. Keep an eye on > 
> temperatures, I added some reflective foil to the airbox and the bottom side 
> of > the intake pipe to try and keep these as cool as possible. I also added a 
> couple > of scoops and hoses in the airstream just under the horn to bring air 
> to the
> > turbo and the engine mount. I used the intake pipe from the 4kq. The one 
> inside > the fender.
> 
> That was easy now just do it.  It really is a fun project and will yield 
> fabulous performance.  But this warning.  If you are going to do it right do 
> not expect it to take less than 2 months (assuming you have a life) and do not 
> underestimate the budget.  I posted mine NOT including other improvements I 
> made and it was almost double what I budgeted.  
> Good luck and feel free to post me any questions.
> Pat Martin
> 864000csq turbo, 2 1/2 cat back, H&R-Boge, MC and loving it.  Drilled rotors 
> stopping it. Koenig Cobra 16x7 with AVS Intermediates turning it,  K&N and 
> uh....
> 95 subaru legacy 
> Bothell, Wa
> 
> PS  I would again like to thank all that helped during the project and hope 
> that the next guy who tries it gets the same sort of support.


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