Re: The spin

[QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>]

In a message dated 98-04-01 17:55:34 EST, Josh write:

<< 
> And the other opinion in print...that the A8 is 3rd ranked, must also be
> true, or maybe it's not.  I'm not saying that it isn't true.  I'm saying
> that you selectively choose which printed material you'll
> believe...whichever works along with your argument.  We all do this from
 >time to time.  Sure....you've driven them all.  Back to back?  I doubt it.
 >Even on the same day?  Probably not.
 Nope, not back to back.  Don't need to (and I didn't drive the VDP, btw).
You don't say it's true, and you haven't driven any of them.  What's the
point?  What exactly is your point overall?  You are losing yourself in the
"quibble".  Bottom line is, that few disagree with the summation of the whole,
given the apples.  Objectively, the audi came in pretty poorly.  Subjectively,
the audi did better than the objective numbers gave it's ranking.  So, there
is some accord that the whole is better than the test results "indicate",
however, in the apples to apples world, it just came up short.  You can
disagree from your keyboard, with serious q-bias.  I can agree from my
keyboard, with the same q-bias, and drove them to get my own opinion, and
still take the "other" apple.  You are right, this is the q-list Josh.  I
sometimes forget.

 >We've all seen a car ranked 2nd in one mags review hit #1 in another mags
 >review.  Everything is subjective.  I've been commenting on their
 >review...and based upon that, thinking of what could improve their
> subjective opinion of the A8.  Any change to the A8, and you say its not
> apples to apples.  The A8 already has an aluminum frame and body.  Does
> that make it an orange??  No.  A very common method of analysis (in
> engineering and mathematical circles) is "All other things being equal".  I
> say, all other things being equal, an upgraded tire package on the A8 would
> make the car more desireable to ME.  And maybe the enthusiasts in the C&D
 >bunch too...
Exactly my point, sorry.  The car desireable to you, may or may not be
desireable to the target audience.  Hence the comparo to the apples it must
compete in.  Audi isn't looking for a ex-mustang driver to buy the flagship
A8.  An upgraded tire package could just as easily make the test favor the
current winners MORE to the enthusiasts at C&D.  Speculation, no reference.
Point in time, cars off the shelf, 3rd.  There's always next year.  Maybe Audi
is listening.  Given the specs listed on all the vehicles, we can certainly
verify that the apples were exactly apples, and no oranges were inserted.  You
want to insert one,  hey great, give all the players the same consideration.
Otherwise Apple to an Orange.  17in wheels don't make a car better, that is
your claim.  I'm smiling.  Bigger tires sometimes takes you in the wrong
direction, objectively and subjectively.  Lot's of documentation there.
 
 >>I don't care about apples, oranges, or bananas...that's not the point.
Let me insert the below, your quote
 " >>^^^^^^^^^^^Huh??"  That's exactly the point.

 >Pointless.  A lease requires a guess at what the car will be worth based
> upon previous and similar cars from that manufacturer.  The car has only
 >been out for 2 years.  A leasee will have leased an A8 based upon residual
> values of past audis.  Not current ones (A4, new A6, or A8).  And the
 >current A4, A6, and A8 are showing to be much more desireable than anything
 >previous.  You know that...
  >>
I don't know that at all.  You don't understand leasing, that's ok.  Many a
leasor would like you to not understand.  You pay your 'notes' based on
predicting residual value, very much to the point, the buyers wallet.  More
desireable needs a history before residual makes it to the 'next' buyer.
Today, a win to BMW.  Very much the point.  Lease prices tell more than you
give credit.  Right now BMW has that in the bag, and it doesn't appear to be
changing any time soon.  The best hope is that Audi can rid themselves of CBS,
UFO's, repairs and recalls, so they can show a "best buy" in a lease OR a
purchase.  Not quite there yet, the numbers don't give that argument validity.
Audi subsidizing the lease to compete, only delays the problem.

Josh, you've lost focus waving the ringed flag.  I encourage you to drive the
740 and understand how far away that 3rd place really is.  You can, and until
you do, whatever audi offers is ok, I just don't go there with you.  The best
hope is that there are a lot of audi loyalists just like you.  That's a short
term place for audi to hang their marketing hat.

HTH

Scott Justusson