Re: Misquoting the spiderman (generation 1 spider bite)

["Matt & Jenai" <matjen@xsite.net>]

Dave writes:
"yes matt, another well written and thoughtful contribution...

1) what happened to the car tested by performance car magazine is a *good*
thing.  it is *supposed* to happen.  the car is trying to get traction in a
low
cf environment. it is trying to maximise traction whereever it can get it.
want
to talk about what the locker would do in the same situation? "

2) as i've said (and re-said), the issue is *not* the low cf environment.
as
has been stated and re-stated, it's spider bite (aka uncontrolled torsen
'hunt') occuring at 7/10th's in a dry tarmac curve.  want to talk about
that?

3) as well, i'm supposed to believe your experience of spider bite (of which
you have never elaborated, but presumably it wasn't caused by the
application
of the handbrake on a wet slip road), but you don't accept the experiences
of
ur-quattro owners who say "nope, donesn't happen in our cars?"  lets see,
how
many ur-quattro (torsen) owners are we talking about here?  2 directly (phil
and myself), 30-50 indirectly (via uk ur-q club)?  all to attempt to
re-create
an event which nobody can describe in enough detail to get someone else to
reproduce?  this despite the diatribe that "this is physics".  theres a
message
in there somewhere..."


4) in all this debate, i am not aware of *any* contribution that you have
made
other than saying "yup, happened to me".  meaningful dialogue?  substantive
discussions?  yeah, right.  i, at least, have contributed theory and my own
practical experience, and taken the heat for it.

i, like a lot of other people i'm sure, would welcome meaningful
contributions
to this topic.  want to start?"

Listen Dave,
  The purpose of a debate or discussion is to address the points raised by
your adversary.  You just keep typing and never listen to what the others
are saying.  Everything above has been thoroughly refuted by Scott, Sargent,
Jeff, and perhaps others.  Hell, I even think Josh Pinkert jumped on board
(I think he's a convert)  I make no claims to be as technically astute as
some others on this list.  You seem to have no such qualms.  I suggest you
reread Scott's posts from today and yesterday.

    I will just state briefly in response to your points above
    1)  Again you have failed to state why the torsen wouldn't hunt in a
turn under similar conditions (all wheels with same cf).  The bite doesn't
occur b/c the torsen breaks or something -  it is doing what, in its own
mind, it is supposed to do.  So perhaps its a good thing in a straight
line - it isn't in a turn.  No one has said it isn't a great device in a
straight line.  As to how a locker will react.  READ SCOTT'S POSTS.
    2)  You're not listening.  You're wrong.  The bite occurs in all
conditions.  It's easier to bring it out in low cf.
    3)  Once again Dave isn't listening.  NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT THE BITE
HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.  Although Scott can make it happen I think.  I have
been bitten twice in 15k miles (once when a passenger actually).  No one
doubts your experience or Phil's.  That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Your argument is specious.  Actually, I take that back its not even clever
enough to be specious.  Perhaps an example will help:  Gee, I wonder how
many Pinto's Ford sold.  Let's see how many were involved in a crash.  Let's
see, how many turned into a torch.  I don't know the numbers but I will
guarantee each number is exponentially smaller.  Just b/c you were in a
Pinto in an accident and didn't get fried it doesn't mean the Pinto isn't
capable of blowing.  Get it.
    My bite while driving occurred as I entered a wet entrance ramp starting
from a red light (therefore I didn't overcook the entry speed)  After I set
my line for the apex I gave the car some gas (328i on my bumper!) to power
out of the turn and into the merging area.  My wagon starts to do a jig and
my rear end jerks around.  My bite as a passenger occurred on a dry track
after several laps.  Had bad tires at the time which heated up.  Scott was
the driver - could probably give more detail.  I just remember almost
ripping the armrest off my door!
    4)  Dave putting up false information (information and theories refuted
a while ago) just confuses the issue.  That's why your taking heat for it -
not b/c of some groundbreaking contribution.  Again, I make no claims to be
either a wrench or an engineer.  My original post was to try and give an
"independent" reporting of the bite.  Something Phil had wondered about in
the past.  Sorry if it didn't meet your standards.

Matt Pfeffer - twice bitten but not shy.