Re[3]: OPINION WANTED : Audi as a "consumer" vehicle (long)

[awoolhouse@zetex.com]

     Yup you're probably right about most of this stuff but I was writing 
     from a UK perspective and in this context, I stand by it...
     
     A Q will tend to cost you more - than a 2WD Audi. I don't have any 
     specific evidence for this except that in my case it always has. There 
     is always something that needs fettling and it's normally harder to 
     get at and costs more and I probably can't do it myself (I'm a pen 
     pusher, not a mechanic).
     
     It DOES drink more fuel than a 2WD. I've owned a Coupe GT 2.2 and a 
     Coupe quattro and the Coupe quattro was more thirsty. Fact. I guess it 
     could have been my driving which was more spirited in the q. Can't 
     remember now. I think you guys in the states tend to de-emphasise the 
     gas mileage factor compared to us in the UK 'cause your fuel costs 
     about 10c per barrel. A tank full of 4* petrol in the UK costs about 
     the same as a small house. If anyone is interested in discussing UK 
     fuel duty (and the rest of the œ30 billion taken off the British 
     motorist every year) with me I'll be happy to respond...
     
     A standard ur-quattro in the UK is classified in group 19 (group 1 is 
     cheapest, group 20 is most expensive and this is a reasonable guide as 
     to the relative cost of insurance. A 20V is group 20 incidentally). 
     Because of my age and a spate of thefts (not any more) my insurance 
     peaked at $3360 four years ago. Let me tell you - that is NOT cheap. I 
     didn't eat for 18 months.
     
     More complex all round. Not just the transmission. Added complexity 
     kind of comes with the territory and makes simple tasks more 
     difficult. I think I'm probably guilty of confusing cause and 
     consequence here to a certain extent. A quattro is the kind of car you 
     would not buy unless you enjoy driving (within reason) in the spirit 
     of competition. So. This 'kind' of car is likely to be subject to a 
     little more stress than a regular Audi 80 1.8s. Not very scientific, 
     just common sense. I know someone will post back suggesting that it's 
     built to withstand additional stress and their probably right. I'm 
     thinking aloud about why it cost me more.
     
     Come to think about it, if you really wanted a piece of technical 
     wizardry just waiting to go wrong and burn a hole bigger than a big 
     thing in your wallet - try a Mitsubishi 3000GT (2 turbos, 4WD, 4WS, 
     electronically controlled dampers, electronically controlled 
     everything else). And still not as involving as a good old 
     agricultural Quattro.
     
     I NEVER take my quattro to a dealer. Apart from costing even more than 
     a small house, dealers appear to be staffed these days by people who 
     neither understand nor appreciate the older classic - the type of 
     engineer who's mechanical sympathy requires him to apply a hammer to a 
     job better suited to a spanner (see mechanical definitions at the end 
     of this note).
     
     Anyway - all this being said - it can still be a relatively affordable 
     experience. If you're lucky, you'll probably find that upkeep and 
     running expenses are comparable to a newer car on finance.
     
     I think I said enough/too much already on this subject so I'll not 
     bore you with any more.
     
     Big Al
     85 URQ
     95 A62.6V6
     
     Mechanical Definitions - enjoy....
     
     HAMMER:  Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays 
     is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive car parts not 
     far from the object we are trying to hit.
     
     MECHANIC'S KNIFE:  Used to open and slice through the contents of 
     cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly 
     well on boxes containing convertible tops or tonneau covers.
     
     ELECTRIC HAND DRILL:  Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in 
     their holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for 
     drilling rollbar mounting holes in the floor of a sports car just 
     above the brake line that goes to the rear axle.
     
     HACKSAW:  One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board 
     principle.  It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable 
     motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more 
     dismal your future becomes.
     
     VICE-GRIPS (or pliers):  Used to round off bolt heads.  If nothing 
     else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding 
     heat to the palm of your hand.
     
     OXYACETYLENE TORCH:  Used almost entirely for lighting those stale 
     garage cigarettes you keep hidden in the back of the Whitworth socket 
     drawer (What wife would think to look in there?) because you can never 
     remember to buy lighter fluid for the Zippo lighter you got from the 
     PX at Fort Campbell.
     
     ZIPPO LIGHTER:  See oxyacetylene torch.
     
     WHITWORTH SOCKETS:  Once used for working on older British cars and 
     motorcycles, they are now used mainly for hiding six-month old Salems 
     from the sort of person who would throw them away for no good reason.
     
     DRILL PRESS:  A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching 
     flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the 
     chest and flings your beer across the room, splattering it against the 
     Rolling Stones poster over the bench grinder.
     
     WIRE WHEEL:  Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere 
     under the workbench with the speed of light.  Also removes fingerprint
     whorls and hard-earned guitar callouses in about the time it takes you 
     to say, "Django Reinhardt".
     
     HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK:  Used for lowering a Mustang to the ground after 
     you have installed a set of Ford Motorsports lowered road springs, 
     trapping the jack handle firmly under the front air dam.
     
     EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4:  Used for levering a car upward off a 
     hydraulic jack.
     
     TWEEZERS:  A tool for removing wood splinters.
     
     PHONE:  Tool for calling your neighbor Chris to see if he has another 
     hydraulic floor jack.
     
     SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER:  Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for 
     spreading mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.
     
     E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR:  A tool that snaps off in bolt holes 
     and is ten times harder than any known drill bit.
     
     TIMING LIGHT:  A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease 
     buildup on crankshaft pulleys.
     
     TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST:  A handy tool for testing the tensile 
     strength of ground straps and hydraulic clutch lines you may have 
     forgotten to disconnect.
     
     CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER:  A large motor mount prying tool 
     that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the 
     end without the handle.
     
     BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER:  A handy tool for transferring sulfuric 
     acid from car battery to the inside of your toolbox after determining 
     that your battery is dead as a doornail, just as you thought.
     
     AVIATION METAL SNIPS:  See hacksaw.
     
     TROUBLE LIGHT:  The mechanic's own tanning booth.  Sometimes called a 
     drop light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin", 
     which is not otherwise found under cars at night.  Health benefits 
     aside, its main purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the 
     same rate that 105-mm howitzer shells might be used during, say, the 
     first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge.  More often dark than 
     light, its name is somewhat misleading.
     
     PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER:  Normally used to stab the lids of old-style 
     paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, 
     as the name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads.
     
     AIR COMPRESSOR:  A machine that takes energy produced in a 
     coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into 
     compressed air that travels by hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact 
     wrench that grips rusty suspension bolts last tightened 40 years ago 
     by someone in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, and rounds them off.
     


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: OPINION WANTED : Audi as a "consumer" vehicle (long)
Author:  MSV96@aol.com at internet
Date:    29-07-98 22-41


In a message dated 7/29/98 "Big Al" (Unser???) awoolhouse@zetex.com writes:
     
<< Theoretically this is obvious - a Q is going to cost you more. >>
     
Than what? A adnoh? Prolly so... A comparable non awd European car? Prolly 
not.
     
<< It's more expensive to fix IF it goes wrong. >>
     
Again--than what?
     
<< It drinks more fuel. >>
     
Not so...this "theory" was disproven and well documented in very early quattro 
development.
     
<< It costs more to insure. >>
     
Huh?! Not in the state of CA it doesn't. That is a state by state thing...
     
<< It IS more complex mechanically so there ARE more things to go wrong. >>
     
Agreed...good ol' Murphey comes to play here. But, the quattro driveline has 
proven to be pretty darn reliable. In the 6 quattros I have owned only one has 
had a failure of the quattro system per say--and that was the front joint in 
the center driveshaft which coulda just as easily happened in a RWD wmb or 
some such (BTDT).
     
<< And you're more likely to need a more specialist mechanic. With specialist 
tools. At a specialist rate. >>
     
That is not because of quattro. That applies to any European and in this day 
and age many Asian and domestic (US) cars as well. The days of the shade tree 
mechanic are pretty much gone in the modern car. Priced dealer service for a 
adnoh lately?! FWIW, the highest dealer service cost vehicles I have ever 
owned were domestic pick up trucks so go figure. (Thankfully they were 
reliable and I did my own maintenance!)
     
<< There are a million good compelling reasons to buy a quattro (I hope 
they're good because I keep on doing it) but unfortunately, economy isn't one 
of them. >>
     
That is a given kinda...anything beyond the bare basics of a Geo Metro or the 
like one makes a decision based on features and performance. Quattro applies 
to both those criteria IMO.
     
<< But. All of the above can apply to much lesser cars too. Buy one wisely and 
you will NOT regret it. Lots of cars cost lots of dosh and sometimes you don't 
get your money's worth. You would with a quattro. Which would you prefer? A 
large, thirsty, complex, comfortable, ugly, slow, techno-limo - or a real car? 
Come on you only live once. You know it makes sense. >>
     
Well put Big Al...
     
The bottom line is that non-car people should not be driving old used cars of 
any make more than likely in this day and age. Once into high miles all cars 
break at one time or another and all cars require proper maintenance. A famous 
sports broadcaster here in the SF Bay Area was once known for driving the 
cheapest beater he could get, drive it till it dies, and leave it on the road 
dead replacing it with another. If you are lucky, and can live with the 
potential inconvenience...that may well be the lowest cost per mile way of 
driving.
     
Again though...unless one is considering a new car purchase, an Audi is not a 
"consumer car" IMO.
     
Mike Veglia
87 5kcstq (and many others "consumed" ;-)...)