Re: One Touch Up Driver's Window

[feb@febsun.cmhnet.org]

Earlier, Ken Keith wrote:
> 
> On the '88 5kcstq, the driver's window goes all the way up with one 
> touch.  I figured it was wired wrong.
> 
> Why do euro versions have one touch up?  I understand one touch 
> down, I think, but up?

I think the real question here is, why would anyone want one touch up?

Imagine you're driving on a toll road, you've just gone through
a toll booth so your window is down, and now you've got to accelerate
to the next bend to beat that &^&% to the part of the road where
the lanes narrow down.  It's cold or hot out, so you want to roll up
your window, but your hands are busy steering the car and shifting
through the gears.  You don't have a free hand to leave on the window
switch for 10 seconds while it motors its way up.

This is perhaps a contrived example, but it's pretty much this:
after you passed a toll booth or some other place where you had
to roll your window down, you're too busy driving to keep your
finger planted on the switch while the window goes back up.

Charlie Smith was heard to spout this off:
>
>    According to Franco, who has researched the wiring diagrams, this
>    relay should fit back to somewhere around '90 ... and maybe earlier
>    but earlier hasn't been validated.  He's going to post something
>    one of these times on this.
>
>    He thinks the earlier cars without alarm systems may get by with a 
>    simpler - read: less expensive, relay.  But, getting it here may 
>    be a problem.

I read the family album carefully for the 100 and 80/90 models from
about 91 to 95, and you see either the 441 959 257 or 443 959 257 relays
used throughout this time.
I went back further for the 100, and it looks like these relays were
first used sometime in late 1988.
There's a break somewhere in the middle of 1988 where it starts to show up.
I have not yet gone back further than 91/92 for the 90 model.

If people are really interested, I can post a little table with year
by year info.  Right now, my table is complete only for 91-95.

There seem to be two "families" of relays here:  the 441 959 257, and
the 443 959 257.  Each available with multiple suffixes.
Near as I can tell, the difference between these two families
is that the 443 line is used on cars without some of the luxury features
like alarm systems and retention of power after the ignition is turned off.
You'll see both the 441 and 443 used in various model years of the 100
and 80/90.  Sometimes, it depends on whether the car in question was
for european or "AUS" (Australian?) production, and whether it
had power windows in the front only, or both in the front and back!
Since these relays really do not control the back windows at all,
I have to come to the conclusion that the models with only front
power windows were more stripped down models without some luxuries.

In the 441 family, the 441 959 257 D was used in european production
and does one touch up.  There are some other interesting differences
between this and the 441 959 257 B that is apparently used in most US
spec cars:  the D pays attention only to the driver's door jamb switch
when deciding when to turn off the retained power after the ignition
gets turned off.  The B looks at both front doors.
So, with the D relay, after I turn off the ignition, the windows work
until I open AND re-close the drivers door.  My front seat passenger
can do anything he or she wants, and it doesn't affect the retained
power.   Before, with the B model, as soon as the front seat passenger
opened the front passenger door, retained power was lost.
I much prefer the way that the D model operates!

Franco

--
feb@febsun.cmhnet.org
'95 A6Q w/Gamma CD mit RDS!