RE:

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

Dave E writes
> i personally think that seeing as how spring/damper, alignment and roll
> characteristics are key variables in the way in which the torsen senses
> torque, that it is no surprise to me that the type 44, a luxo-barge
> (relatively speaking) would exhibit behaviour which is plainly not in the
> repertoire of my cars.

Problem:  If a torsen is fooled by slip angle differences across the center 
axle while turning, which chassis design (spring damper, alignment, etc) 
won't O at 75r/25f, and won't U at 25r/75f for the same variables as proposed 
in 885140?  "Key" variables?  How exactly is that Dave?  Any conclusions you 
can draw about a torsen or a chassis with that statement?  Should I be 
setting what alignment specifications to "help" the torsen ignore relative 
slip angle inputs (isn't that an oxymoron)?  Any documentation that spring 
and damper, etc, are "key"?  Couldn't we effectively "key" that out (and 
wheelbase) with more or less turning radius in a given chassis test?  What 
happens to all that as we lower cf.  Which cars do better there?  Let's draw 
some conclusions gentlemen.  Even 885140 has more constants (specifically, no 
indication that the above are even relevent) than you two propose.  Why?

Then Phil writes:
>I drive both a Torsen ur-quattro and a Torsen Type 44 daily.
>The limits are in very different places, but behavior at them (unladen)
>is exactly the same.  A really heavy load in the Avant unsettles it a
>very little, and some minor steering input is necessary at the throttle
>steer point.

Which confirms my event v nonevent proposition on Friday.  "... Minor steerig 
input is necessary..."  means that a car with a classic turn execution will 
be faster thru same.  Hoping for you, that "minor" never...

Look, guys, you need to get up to speed on Dave's own reference here.  Phil 
just stated incorrectly that a torsen "ignores" slip angle differences across 
the center axle.  Maybe Dave can help you here Phil.  Dave has indicated that 
my conclusions (scenarios, answers, and truisms) mean I misunderstand torsen 
and locker operation.  

I see light at the end of the tunnel.  Phil needs a retraction of conclusions 
right off the bat, Dave really hasn't made any yet, nor has he answered my 
885140 quiz (I did his).  

Fire away boys, I've put a lot of ammo up for ya.  Right now, you both aren't 
even in agreement.  

Respectfully 

Scott Justusson