RE:RE: adding fuel

[QSHIPQ@aol.com]

Phil writes:
>>How can I document the absence of something?

Read about it perhaps?  885140 for starters.

> Right now, Dave E is putting forth a great effort to *try* to
> understand the phenomenon, from the relevent documentation.
>>My impression was that Dave was trying to make _you_ understand.  There
>>seems little wrong with his own understanding.

He's trying to explore the existing documentation and explain why and/or why 
not the bite can or can't exist.   I can easily discuss that here.  Tunnel 
vision on an easily replicable alignment seems to be unfair to the scientists 
that presented more complicated torsen matricies.

> You have decided that personal experience is enough.
>>Yup.  I think my original statement of: "It flat doesn't happen" perhaps
>>needs some qualification.
>>         "It flat doesn't happen on a properly aligned car."
>>I'm sorry, but I was trained as a scientist.  

I'd rebutt, don't apologize, be one.  If you took a moment to read 885140 
(how 'bout a peer review?), you would understand that a) alignments *can* 
*affect* the bite, but b) they are considered a given to any torsen paper, c) 
 torsen output can affect chassis dynamics of U and O in the same turn, and 
d)  relative slip angle is not ignored, neither is traction.  I suppose you 
could argue, neither is alignment.  But given the matrix that applies to a 
torsen allocating torque, and all inputs to the device are the same, wouldn't 
it be fair to consider alignment a constant, or that certainly changing 
another variable could give the same torque distribution as an out of spec 
alignment? 

>About a third of my course
>was about experimentation and measurement science.  Ever since then -
>if it can't be demonstrated, it don't exist.  Theories are developed to
>support experimental results, and are _never_ accepted unless the
>proving experiment can be repeated at will by any other worked in the
>field.  Both my cars have Torsens - neither exhibits spider bite.
>It has to be something else.  Since our hardware is identical, it's
>either the way it's set up or it's the way we're using it.

Don't I remember you speaking of correcting steering mid turn?  Not all of us 
routinely do that.  Experiments don't *prove* anything Phil.  They either 
support a null hypothesis or don't.  Your claims of 'alignment' aren't 
supported by the documentation, more specifically, no one considers it 
significant enough to mention, cuz it's a given.  Appreciate your reminder 
that you've never been bitten.  Those of us that have been bitten, with 
proper alignments, are looking a little deeper here.  

>To claim that an obvious defect of the magnitude of the proposed spider
>bite still exists without recalls in tens or hundreds of thousands of
>vehicles being driven all over the globe beggars belief.  This mailing
>list is the world wide sole source of any such suggestion.

Gee, why isn't the US getting the same tt recall as the EC?  Thanks, once 
again, for making your *opinions* of the torsen cystal clear.  I totally 
understand your position.  

Thanks for your post

Scott Justusson